I still haven't had time to do an audio shootout between these two mics, but I thought some of you may be interested in what I found when I took both of them apart and compared them side by side.
To disassemble the V67, unscrew the back ring at the bottom of the mic. Next, unscrew the large bottom green ring. You can now slide the green body shell off. There are two small screws holding the gold grille on. When you remove those, the grille will slide off, revealing the capsule.
To disassemble the C1, unscrew the 3 screws at the bottom of the mic, and you can slide the body shell off. There are three small screws holding the grille on. When you remove those, the grille will slide off, revealing the capsule.
Here's what they both look like inside, side by side:
First impressions:
The C1 is definitely has a better built housing and is heavier. The V67G is almost flimsy by comparison. I think I would put something like undercoating on the inside of the green body shell to prevent ringing, although I don't hear any ringing in use.
The C1 uses a single circuit board; the V67 uses two back-to-back circuit boards. Either method is fine.
The V67 has a transformer, the C1 does not. Good transformers can add a lot of body to the sound and prevent ringing on the high end. Bad transformers can cause severe roll offs and ringing. I know the V67 has a pretty good transformer, so points for the transformer (at least till I can hear the C1 directly compared).
Both circuit boards look pretty well assembled. A tie there. On to the capsules:
Wow, this is strange; the V67 capsule is solid brass with teflon spacers and brass rings, while the C1 capsule is aluminium and plastic with teflon rings. Points to the V67G - much more solid construction and engineering. The gold sputter is thicker and more even on the V67 capsule. They didn't sputter out to the edges; the mylar serves as an insulator. The C1 is sputtered lightly all the way out, so that's why they hafta use the teflon rings. Overall, the C1 capsule looks cheesier than the V67 - round goes to Marshall. Let's take a good look at the edge of each mic:
Yup, on the C1, it's teflon spacer, gold-sputtered mylar diaphragm, aluminum back plate, plastic body, clear mylar diaphragm, teflon ring.
The V67 has a brass ring, teflon spacer, gold-sputtered mylar diaphragm, brass backplate, brass body, clear mylar diaphragm, teflon spacer, and brass retaining ring. Mega-points to Marshall on capsule construction. Whoa, what's this?
Do you see what just caught my eye? This is the back side of the capsule, You can see the teflon ring, the clear mylar diaphragm, and the plastic body of the C1 on the left. On the right is the V67, where you can see the brass ring, the clear mylar diaphragm, and the brass body of the V67. I didn't see it at first either, so let's get in really close. Here's the back side of the V67 capsule:
Look closely. Now look at the back side of the C1 capsule:
Where the hell are the rest of the retaining screws for the teflon ring? Two screws? The two screws are down so tight, the teflon is partially lifted away from the diaphragm. Those screws are supposed to be there to insure a good back seal and even tension, I believe. All I can think of is the robot in "Lost In Space", waving his arms and crying, "Danger, danger, Will Robinson".
Anyway, I reassembled the mics and I'll actually listen to them in the next few days.
Damn, while they were open, I forgot to see if the gold top (not the grille itself) is made of plastic or not. Both grilles have the coarse weave outer mesh, and a fine mesh inside the grille. A tie there.
I had to go back and open it up and look. No, it's not plastic, the V67G grille is metal.
More to come. Stay tuned.
Comments
Originally posted by riconga:
Harvey, just a note of thanks for this thread, this is the kind of info ive been trying to find on these threads. something tangible i see and learn from. your the man!
Agreed 100%
Thanks Harvey, very useful and very informative, can't wait to hear the results of the Audio shootout.
Simon
:)
Originally posted by hargerst:
The C1 is definitely has a better built housing and is heavier. The V67G is almost flimsy by comparison. I think I would put something like undercoating on the inside of the green body shell to prevent ringing, although I don't hear any ringing in use.
Hi, Harvey -
Turns out I was already registered here. Must have checked the place out when it was new and forgot about it.
I recall some exploratory surgery that Ty performed on a couple of the large Russian mics a while back. He found that some damping material in the case improved them. Maybe "undercoating" the body of the Marshall is a good idea.
Question for Harvey & or Tom
Have a V67 due to arrive today. If there is a need line the inside of my mic, Due to ringing.
Harvey, What would you suggest as a medium ? Primer, Flat Paint, etc....
Tom, How and where did you place the velcro ? Horizontle. on the bottom, half way up. Vertical strips etc...
Thanks, Paul T
When the mic is disassembled, the body is basically a steel tube. Towards the bottom of the tube I attached the fuzzy part of Velcro around the inside of the steel tube of the body. If you look at Harvey's photo's you will notice that the XLR housing is a shiny silver, bell shaped housing (with a white serial# sticker on it). When you re-assemble the mic, the Velcro lightly presses against that bell shaped housing. The Velcro mutes the body tube against the XLR housing.
If you do this mod, remember that there is a notch where the top mesh assembly locks to the top of the body tube. This keeps the capsule facing the correct side. If these are not matched up when you screw the mic together again, you could damage the mic.
My V67G arrived via UPS yesterday and I took it for a spin - it sure sounds nice and smooth on my low baritone voice. A nice contrast to my more "crispy" Rode NT1.
Much thanks to you guys with the golden ears and records taking the time to listen to these inexpensive mics and share your experienced opinions with beginners.
And a special thank you to the Fearless Leader of the Bottom Feeders for actually prying off the covers and treating us to a guided tour of these two mics. Thank you, Harvey, for being willing to take on us poor students. I know it can be a royal pain dealing with clueless newbies (my day job is computer support) so your patience is greatly appreciated.
Tom Cram's velcro anti-ring mod goes in tonight!
:D
After this last exchange with Alan Hyatt, I've decided to stop evaluating the rest of the Studio Projects line of microphones. My reasons are listed in my answer to Alan below:
Originally posted by Alan Hyatt:
I can understand Harvey's and other's initial reaction of perhaps feeling gypped out of a bunch of screws, but this is simply not the case. This is a case of newer technology at work.
I hope this will satisfy the groups concern over this matter."Feeling gypped out of a bunch of screws"? Damn, that's a pretty cheap shot, isn't it, Alan? I open up the mic, I'm impressed with it, but than I find a ring with a lotta holes for screws (just like the ring on the front of the capsule), but only two screws holding it in place. Do I feel like I've been gypped outta some screws?
Let's say that I take the wheel covers off my brand new car, only to discover that one of the wheels is only held on with two screws, but the wheel has screw holes for all the missing screws. Do I feel like I've been "gypped outta some screws"?
Notice I didn't say in the report "this is fucked", I wasn't sure if that was the way it was supposed to look. And so I called you ASAP to find out if that was normal. And then I immediately commented in all the newsgroups that this was normal; I didn't take any cheap shots at your decision to just use two screws, and I went on to praise the sound of the mic.
I'm getting the impression that you don't really want these looked at hard, or real evaluations made, Alan. You're just looking for fast glowing reviews that you can use. I told you up front that I won't play that game.
My tests are over on your mics, Alan. Sorry to have wasted your time. I'll send them to Tom Cram at dbx if you'd like, or to Ty Ford, your choice. They'll both provide you with an honest evaluation. Ty is the expert at mic testing.
My conclusions? The C1 seems to be a good value, but without listening to a second unit, I won't comment on it's reliability or consistency. If you send the second C1, I'll pass it on to whomever you want to use to continue the tests. Maybe another tester will be more tractable.
Respectfully,
Harvey Gerst,
Bottom-Feeder
Right on!
Harvey I applaud your integrity. I started out life as a journalist (quickly derailed by music). And you cannot be expected to review a product/business/service with the proprietor countering your every comment.
I had this happen once when I was writing for The Park Record. I was reviewing a new art museum/store and the owner came down to the offices to "assist" me. Right in the bullpen, right in front of my peers (my editor was at lunch) he started editing my copy. After a frustrating half an hour, I looked him in the eye and said "I think I'll forgo the review of your store and do a story about this instead." He apologized and hastily left.
I don't think that he was intentionally derailing the process, he just got caught up. He needed someone to reel him in. Some people get in "Sales Weasel" mode and can't stop (it's a sickness). However, some people are just control freaks, plain and simple. Time and action will tell which one Alan is. Alan is getting hit from all sides on a lot of different bbs' for a lot of different reasons. Some valid, some not, IMHO.
Adversity brings out the best and the worst in people.
Big problem with that is I'm not a reviewer, and I don't wanna be. This was for my own information and to share my findings with a few of my friends. I'm ok at testing some stuff, but 5 words from someone like Stephen Paul are worth more than 5 pages of my writing. I run a studio for a living and that's what I like to do.
Harvey, no disrespect to Stephen Paul or anyone else but in this instance it is exactly your perspective that were interested in hearing thats why were reading your forum. Please continue to share your impressions and evaluations, for most of us "bottom feeders" this is the kind of reflection were interested in. Thanks for sharing your observation's.
You know, speaking as a guy who obviously made a purchase decision based on this thread, I want to make something clear.
I was already right on the edge about purchasing the V67G when I spotted Harvey's beautiful "take apart" article. My main concern was with the mic's construction (I've heard one), and this thread spoke to that beautifully. One of the most devestating charges brought against the Chinese mics is that they're not well-built. The sight of the Marshall's lovely brass capsule pushed me over the edge and I made a purchase.
The Studio Projects mic may, indeed, sound wonderful - I have not heard it, and if I had I would hesitate to express my ignorant opinion in such august company! - no disrespect intended, Mr. Hyatt. I'm sure the epoxied back side of the capsule works just great and the extra holes in the retaining ring might indicate a cost-savings (cheaper to make just one ring and use it on the front and the back, perhaps?) But to a tire-kicker like me it doesn't *look* good. Maybe somebody said, "who cares that the ring has too many holes, it has zero effect on the sound and they'll never see it," but they were incorrect. We saw. It looks kinda ugly.
Mr. Hyatt, if possible I'd clean up that capsule JUST a bit so the interior appearance will do justice to all the people who work hard to produce the Studio Projects mics. Maybe do a new set of rear retaining rings for the back of the capsule with just two holes in it? And just so the new models wouldn't be confused with the old you could call it the C-1hg? Might be a nice gesture and a happy ending to this tempest in a teacup.
Perhaps the "orignal" C-1's will become collector's items? Certainly there will be people who claim they can hear the screw-holes in the retaining ring, hehehe.
Thank you again, Harvey. I hope you don't give up the reviews but you sure deserve a break after all this "screwy" business! We beginners have OODLES to learn from you other than product reviews. I'll shut up now and once again take my seat at the feet of the Master. :D
Harvey, just a note of thanks for this thread, this is the kind of info ive been trying to find on these threads. something tangible i see and learn from. your the man!