Vac Rac is old style simple signal path good!
We use the tube mic amps and they are very detailed with super extended low end. The power supply is tube and very robust.
Detail is sparkle-y.

Modeled after old Western Electric circuitry, the mic amp is highly revered. Sadly, they were very expensive and the company stopped making them. I think the 4 channels/ rack/ power supply costs over $5000.00.

Yes, Boutique Audio is the successor company.

We have often thought of selling our 4 channel rack. However, that idea goes out the window once we use them again and get an outrageously good recording.

I'm good friends with the original designer of the Vac Racs.... Steve Barker designed them and Steve Firlotte (Inward Connections) built them. They came in two varieties- a modular system that was based on the concept of the API lunchbox and a 10 channel preamp. The modular system had 4 modules- a preamp, a limiter, an EQ (which was tube/solid state hybrid) and I believe a M-S matrix if I remember correctly.

The pres and the limiters are especially good- as Plush described, very good transient response, warm but neutral sound (huge low end, great top end)... The limiters have an attack time built in that allows the first transient through, but then clamps down hard. Because of that you can have massive amounts of limiting but it remains quite transparent.

Today, the limiters are the only things being built. Inward's stereo limiter is the original Vac Rac design. They are quite expensive (about $4K if I remember correctly) as they are hand built in very small production runs.

Steve Barker still does audio consulting for Inward Connections, but hasn't designed anything in the commercial realm for quite some time for them. I believe he did work on the power supply of the new modular sidecar (which is not the same as Vac Rac) and he did work on the power supply for the new tube console that Inward installed out in Nashville and on the splash screen for Inward).

Steve Barker has been working to ressurect Vac Rac, but I can't say whether it will happen or not. Unless that happens, look for the occasional unit on the used market (still expensive) or see if Steve Firlotte will do a custom box based on those designs for you.

--Ben

Thank you gentlemen for your input. At the moment the cost is a big issue, but after I get a few more mics I want to look into some serious tube preamps. I must say I'm very intrigued by these in particular. Is there an emoticon for drooling?

Cheers!
John

Hey John!

I'll agree that the VacRac stuff is QUITE nice. I wouldn't advise you though to go rushing off too quickly to drop that kinda load on it. There are some seriously great tube mic pres or great xfmr pre's on the market today that are far more reasonable in price and will get you some phenomenal sounds. My favorites for tube pres:

- Manley
- Summit
- Pendulum
- Millennia
- GT Brick (yep, I said it - this is actually a viable pre for orchestral recording - warm and thick with respectable transient response. I haven't seen the slew rate published anywhere, but I bet it's every bit as good as some of the better "fast" pres on the market.)

as for xfrmr pres:

- Brent Averill
- API
- Old School
- Hardy
- Amek
- Langevin
- etc...

Of course, you're quite familiar with the transformerless designs from Grace, Millennia, True, Buzz, etc - but the fact is the VacRac stuff is friggin expensive and now that it's off the market, it's even higher.

Personally, I just can't justify that kind of money on a mic pre when there are some SERIOUSLY great pres out there for so much less.

Just my $.02 8-)

Hi Jeremy
Thanks for list of stuff -some of which I have salivated over many times. I'm a little surprised (in a nice way!) to see the Brick in such exhalted company, although I know that many people have been more than a little surprised by the performance given its price. I have looked previously at the Millennia TD-1, but the mic input is solid state only -which is a big flaw in my opinion. I would buy a single channel otherwise.

I've been thinking of John Hardy a lot lately. The postage and import duties add around $400 to the Mercenary Price (apparently it is very heavy), so the initial investment is quite steep, but it is very cost effective given the pricing options for extra channels. Whatever I do, I'm looking for an investment for life, so I don't mind waiting a little longer between each purchase.

Still the lure of the Vac Rac is strong :wink: Maybe I'll be able to get some when I get my first Grammy! That reminds me -I still need more mics :cry:

Thanks again! John

PS Thanks again Ben and Plush for some interesting reading.

If cost/weight, etc are important (and hey, they should be) you really ought to look at an API lunchbox or rackpack.

That way, you can add channels later in life when the mood strikes you, but in the mean time, you can pick up a rack and 2 units for $1500 US, plus of course the duties. Later when you add modules - they're relatively lightweight (in comparison to an entire rackmount pre) and you can get all sorts of flavors.

I would strongly suggest starting off with a pair of BA 312As to start off with.

J.

Thanks Jeremy
I have to admit I have never considered API; I always associate them with a very specific rock sound. Maybe a little in-your-face. I must look up their pricing options.

Cheers!
John

Some of their units are a little agressive. The BA stuff and some of the Old School stuff (both of which fit into API Lunchboxes, etc.) can have some very smooth and pleasing sounds. If I'm not mistaken, Nathan Eldred hangs around here - maybe he can comment. (I'll point him over here.)

J.

PS - what on earth are you doing up at this unGodly hour? If it's 11:00pm here, that means its 4:00 AM there!?! :-?

Jeremy
I've just been looking at the Brent Averill site and see a whole new world of goodies! They seem to be very reasonably priced.

Thanks again for the API tip 8-) It's so easy to ignore a whole range of products.

Thanks
John

We must have been typing at the same time. That sounds cool :)

Cucco wrote: PS - what on earth are you doing up at this unGodly hour? If it's 11:00pm here, that means its 4:00 AM there!?! :-?

Gotta get back in my coffin now as dawn is about to break!

John

Gonna say it again... If you are thinking something along the lines of an API pre, you really owe it to yourself to play around with the new A Designs Pacifica preamp. It has a similar feel/sound in the lows and mids (huge low end- beaten only by the Vac Rac and slightly forward, but not obnoxious mids) but a top end that is extended and beautiful. On orchestral recording, it makes you sit up and take notice of the orchestra on the loud stuff, but yet has the subtlety needed for chamber music.

That and it has 72 dB of clean gain... I've used a lot of stuff and it is amongst the best sounding stuff that I've used. Street is about $1600 US.

--Ben

Cucco wrote: Some of their units are a little agressive. The BA stuff and some of the Old School stuff (both of which fit into API Lunchboxes, etc.) can have some very smooth and pleasing sounds. If I'm not mistaken, Nathan Eldred hangs around here - maybe he can comment. (I'll point him over here.)

The OSA MP1-C is OSA's interpretation of an early API preamp, circa 1970. Quite a bit different from API's/ATI's current offering. Then the other three preamps are variations on the theme, from more open in the highs (L), to fatter in the lows/mids (L3), to cleaner (A). So basically you aren't stuck with that very specific 'API' sound in regards to OSA, pretty much the whole pallet is there.

FifthCircle wrote: Gonna say it again... If you are thinking something along the lines of an API pre, you really owe it to yourself to play around with the new A Designs Pacifica preamp. It has a similar feel/sound in the lows and mids (huge low end- beaten only by the Vac Rac and slightly forward, but not obnoxious mids) but a top end that is extended and beautiful. On orchestral recording, it makes you sit up and take notice of the orchestra on the loud stuff, but yet has the subtlety needed for chamber music.

That and it has 72 dB of clean gain... I've used a lot of stuff and it is amongst the best sounding stuff that I've used. Street is about $1600 US.

--Ben

Hi Ben
Yes I remember you mentioning this pre. I looked them up and then I sorta forgot about them (age catching up on me). If I remember correctly, they even have European dealers. From your description, they're obviously very impressive boxes.

Cheers
John

atlasproaudio wrote: The OSA MP1-C is OSA's interpretation of an early API preamp, circa 1970. Quite a bit different from API's/ATI's current offering. Then the other three preamps are variations on the theme, from more open in the highs (L), to fatter in the lows/mids (L3), to cleaner (A). So basically you aren't stuck with that very specific 'API' sound in regards to OSA, pretty much the whole pallet is there.

Hi Nathan
This info is of immeasurable value to me, and is very much appreciated.

BTW I love the gear-porn on your site :wink:

John

PS talking of gear-porn... Anyone know where Fletcher's gone these days? I haven't seen him post for months.

John Stafford wrote: [quote=atlasproaudio]The OSA MP1-C is OSA's interpretation of an early API preamp, circa 1970. Quite a bit different from API's/ATI's current offering. Then the other three preamps are variations on the theme, from more open in the highs (L), to fatter in the lows/mids (L3), to cleaner (A). So basically you aren't stuck with that very specific 'API' sound in regards to OSA, pretty much the whole pallet is there.

Hi Nathan
This info is of immeasurable value to me, and is very much appreciated.

BTW I love the gear-porn on your site :wink:

John

Thanks John! 8-)

John:
Better take a 2nd look at the Millennia Media TD-1. It is a "twin topolgy" design , just like their Origin. You can choose SS or tube,
tranny or not, via relay circuits in it. I want one for re-amping and as a great pre....FYI.

Thanks Moonbaby

I have seriously looked at the TD-1 before, but at the moment I really need two channels, and reluctant as I am to give up all of those other goodies it has to offer, I could only consider buying one if I could buy a second rather quickly after that. That's too much financially at the moment.

I'm considering buying a bass purely for my own amusement (I like the 1970s Yamaha basses), so the TD-1 would probably be a great idea then, especially when one of my vocal mics and the Millennia pre (HV-3?) work very well together. Damn, I wish I had more money! But yeah, the TD-1 sounds like a cool box, and I want one -it's a pain having to wait until it's the 'sensible' thing to do. God but I hate being sensible -next thing I'll be looking for a 'proper' job :wink:

Thanks for the input :)

John

John:
I used to sell the Yammies back in the 70s-80s...can you say "BB"?
They were awesome instruments back then. Yamaha didn't make any crappy stuff back in those days, for sure..Recently saw one of those neck-thru-body basses for sale here in my town. Wish I could find an SA2000 (their version of the 335 from the early 80s).

moonbaby wrote: John:
Better take a 2nd look at the Millennia Media TD-1. It is a "twin topolgy" design , just like their Origin. You can choose SS or tube,
tranny or not, via relay circuits in it. I want one for re-amping and as a great pre....FYI.

Actually, the twin topology features on the TD-1 are a bit confusing. It is actually only found on the DI, on the rest it is solid state only, and there is no switchable transformer, as is found on the Origin. To get a fully switchable path, it is only found in the Origin. The preamp itself on the TD-1 is an HV-3 only, not the M2-B.

http://www.mil-media.com/pdf/td1-stt1-comparison.pdf

moonbaby wrote: John:
I used to sell the Yammies back in the 70s-80s...can you say "BB"?
They were awesome instruments back then. Yamaha didn't make any crappy stuff back in those days, for sure..Recently saw one of those neck-thru-body basses for sale here in my town. Wish I could find an SA2000 (their version of the 335 from the early 80s).

Hey Moonbaby
My mother bought me a Yamaha SF600 guitar in 1982, and I still think it's great. It has a single piece of mahogany from head to.....erm, toe(?). I haven't really played for about fifteen years, but I dust it off every now and then to remind myself of my wayward youth! It's hard to believe I once had hair, and even harder to believe how long it was! I haven't looked at the guitar market for many years, and I'm astonished at how much everything has changed. Seeing as I won't be buying that Bosendorfer concert grand any time soon, I'll get a bass to keep me occupied :wink:

John

John:
Cool guitar. Sounds like what they called the SG1500 here in the States. Those Yammies from that era sang like birds, no doubt due to the design input from Santana (pre- PRS)...I, too, wonder what happened to all of MY hair...
Atlas:
Thanks for the clarification on the TD-1. I was reading between the lines. I know what happens when I ASSUME....!

Nathan
As a matter of curiosity, how does the TD-1 compare to the Origin where their functions overlap? Are there compromises in the electronics of the TD-1 other than limited flexibility?

Thanks
John

Moonbaby: yeah of course! I had completely forgotten about the whole Santana thing! Talking of Santana..... PEACE :wink:

John Stafford wrote: Nathan
As a matter of curiosity, how does the TD-1 compare to the Origin where their functions overlap? Are there compromises in the electronics of the TD-1 other than limited flexibility?

The HV-3 solid state preamp is the preamp on both the Origin (in ss mode) and only on the TD-1. EQ is the same, but only 2 bands on the TD-1 (instead of 4 on Origin). DI is same on both. No differences in sound from what I can tell where the functions are the same. I keep two Origins with telefunken tubes in the A room rack at all times, you should hear them on overheads with a Chandler TG-1 for limiting, pretty nice sound.