Lots of talk regarding ribbon mics these past few weeks, I thought I'd post an audio example of the sound of a ribbon on my voice.
I chose to write a track that would be reminscent of when these mics were used in their heyday - kind of a jazzy/pop standard thing.
For this track, I borrowed an RCA 44BX for the vocals on this one.
Preamp was a Grace Model 101.
All instruments are the real thing with the exception of the Strings and the B3, which were both soft synths from Native and Garritan.
Special thanks to Ed McGlaughlin on upright bass, and to Jamester for a great 335 guitar track.
[MEDIA=soundcloud]donny-thompson-4/youll-never-know[/media]
Topic Tags
Comments
And what you are describing Donny is one thing I have just said
And what you are describing Donny is one thing I have just said no to!
I figure if I buy it I should own it and be able to use if anywhere and or time I want.
One reason I love the 500 format so much is I can pull comp's eq's or what ever I want and go where ever want no string attached.
I have a lot of rack space and it takes up space, but I just have no plans of dropping into the plug-in rabbit hole.
FWIW, The beauty of Sequoia, I pack around a codemeter, and can
FWIW,
The beauty of Sequoia, I pack around a codemeter, and can use it in a thousands DAW's, offline flawlessly. I never need to go online unless I want to update the software which do seem to be improvements. We can do that on any computer. Why can't others do the same.
I love plug-ins too but most of those are now for basic EQ (HPF, LPF), clinical notching, super fast limiting and for mastering music, mostly for online once again. ( plug-in comps, talk about turning your track into boring real fast).
How much more do you need year after year, I don't get it?
The rest of this plug-in hype, man, you can have it. To my ears, each time you insert a plug, it sounds like it just gets you closer to "everything sounding the same".
As long as we have dishonest people, we will always be forced to upgrade. I bet most of the upgrades are to do with GUI, comparability and security. Rarely anything is to do with sonic improvements.
How would we ever be able to compare the before and after of a plug-in (what a bunch of BS)? And we know our ability to hear any change between an A/B is about 1 sec. Especially, when these changes are so fine.
The best way I have been able to perform comparisons is by taking a recorded track, loop one bar side by side so you can mentally lock into it and hear the changes. The levels must be so close to keep it honest too. These coders know we aren't doing that.
Broken record on loop here! Sounds to me like we are being fooled a lot more into thinking things sound better with this new plug-in. Digital sound is a bunch of BS code that has far more to do with bugs and compatibility than sonics. So why are we all playing into this? Yup, its easier ITB and once you are locked into the program, you might as well give them your Credit Card. What a wast of time spent going over the same thing month after month.
LOL, how did we get to this in a ribbon mic discussion. Got to love it!
Well I think we got on this discussion because ribbon microphone
Well I think we got on this discussion because ribbon microphones can take equalization much better than most other dynamic and condenser microphones. It's because they are already smooth sounding to begin with. You just won't find a harsh sounding ribbon microphone anywhere. And so they do quite well with just stock equalization that comes with the multi-tracks software you happen to be using, whatever it is. I have a minimum of plug-ins. Some I've purchased and a couple have been gifts from other engineers that I wired my services. Sometimes, I just get a cash tip. I mean for quite some time now, since I originally got ProTools back in version 7.0, they included Bomb Squad's 1176. And you know it's not bad. Especially when you have an old blackface early version 1176, sitting right there to compare it to.
And I don't think the UA emulated EMT plate sounds any better than many of the other algorithmic reverbs and other multi-tracks software packages like Adobe Audition. It's algorithmic reverb so you tweak it to sound the way you want. And most people don't know what plate sound like. And ya know, an EMT plate was already bright sounding. But having a Studio Technologies Stainless Steel Plate reverb was like an EMT plate on steroids. And none of these plug-ins I can assure everybody sounds anything like those. But it still reverb and so we use them. Whatever they are?
Were the largest marketing difference is in these third-party and included algorithmically based effects are are simply in the GUI, how they look, how you use them. Does the interface speak to you or does it look like the Mayan or Aztec calendar? And so when the GUI makes sense to you, you can make more sense of your sound. It's not so much about the algorithmic programming itself. There are already adopted formulas for that. I mean you can have the same drivetrain on an SS Camaro that is identical to the Corvette stingray. So what's the difference there? It's the GUI. It's how it looks. Remember everything beneath the exterior façade is the same. So it's only the minute difference in the aerodynamics but not necessarily the actual performance thereof. And then there's the fully boutique types that virtually look identical but all the guts, frame, everything beneath the façade is something very exotic and highly specialized, extremely expensive. And that would be the real 1176. Looks just like the clones but not quite the same. Looks like the software versions but not quite the same. There is a parallel to everything that we do everything that we use. And much of the same philosophies simply go into the GUI. And if it looks like something, you'll think it sounds like something and we have the placebo effect. Which we all know is valid and still works. It's been proven in medical studies. Audio really isn't any different today. It was different yesterday. And the cool thing about the way smart engineers work today is to still use the tools we've always used along with some of these new spices we picked up at the spice shop that moved into the neighborhood a couple of years ago. Or maybe it's just Home Depot or Lowes? Were you get really fine Chinese imitations of real tools and appliances. They sort of work for you while. Never quite worked the same way as the good stuff. Won't necessarily get the job done as precisely as you want? And most of the time it's BFD isn't it? Otherwise these companies wouldn't be able to stay in business. So ya look at the demographics of everything. It's iPods and earbuds. It's a bad surround systems with tiny little cubic speakers and something called a subwoofer was no guts no glory.
And really what's with surround sound and music anyhow? Great for movies and sound effects no doubt about that. With music? Where do you listen to music? Are you sitting in the middle of the band playing bongos? I don't think so. So what's behind you when you are listening to somebody on stage? What's behind you when you're listening to a band at a nightclub? Come on answer the question... well I'll tell you what's behind you. It's that noisy fussing infant some woman brought into the performance of the Magic Fruit that you wanted to hear or some idiot that won't stop whispering to somebody else. Or it's the idiot big beer belly linebacker sized goof up yelling something about some football player that fumbled. Or hasn't anybody been listening to real performances? So I really not into the surround aspect of music playback. OK so reverb, maybe that really cool processor that you have Chris? Perfect for the rear channels. So are we just trying to turn music into some kind of huge big continuous running special effects for 3 1/2 minutes? Or are we trying to present music with performance value and listening pleasure? I don't need to prove to anybody that I can play video games on my computer while simultaneously mixing a CD.
Pac-Man, what we used to do to analog tape and 16 bit recording.
Mx. Remy Ann David
1. I think the mic that sounds the best without EQ is always th
1. I think the mic that sounds the best without EQ is always the mic "takes eq the best." Counter examples are welcome - mics that sounded bad until they "took eq."
2. I have liked the UA EMT reverb better than other reverbs I have tried. Like all reviews that is a statement about the UA EMt and about ME. Maybe it says that I have not tried the real thing. (I have not; Remy has.) Maybe it says I have not tried every parameter combination on every other competitor. (Mea Culpa.)
3. Anyway. My exams are graded and I'm going to have another glass of wine. Cheers.
audiokid, post: 398547 wrote: First day with the NEOS, thought I
audiokid, post: 398547 wrote: First day with the NEOS, thought I would try this again with your song Donny!
[MEDIA=soundcloud]audiokid/donny-neos1
Re where you did the punch in: Is the punch in at 2:00 ?
wow Chris, that is WARM with a capital (pun intended) WARM LOL
Can you tell me what you did? gimme gimme gimme
And no, the punch isn't at 2:00. ;)
I'll let the cat out of the bag here with a bit of back story...
Two months before I tracked that song, I was diagnosed with nodules on my vocal cords which, strangely enough, while allowing me to barely talk, still allowed me to sing a bit.
I tracked everything, and then after the surgery I went back and heard one line that I had cracked ... "And Now I'm Sad And Blue..." at around 3:15
I punched it back in after I healed (yes, I re borrowed the ribbon mic to do it...just one line) and went through hell trying to match EQ and timbre so that it didn't stick out. I guess I did a pretty good job. ;)
So.... tell me what you did!
Damn, you should have given me another chance! I thought the obv
Damn, you should have given me another chance! I thought the obvious. What happened at 2:00 ? There is definitely a vocal tone change
there?
Re NEOS:
Well how fun is this, hearing some excitement about something we do right is what its all about, eh! A nice start to the morning indeed!
What did I do? I ran this through the NEOS. No kidding. Its that friken amazing.
PS. I should add, or clarify to new readers that this is a compr
PS. I should add, or clarify to new readers that this is a compressed recording of a recording taken off of soundcloud.
I am recording Donny's song from soundcloud, processing this through my hybrid rig and re recording the analog mix onto a second DAW, leveling it and re uploading it back to soundcloud.
Soundcloud >DA AD> DAW> DA> NEOS hybrid processing >AD> soundcloud
I did the same EQ dips which were:
Pulled,
2 db around 250hz,
5 db notch at 10k.
added a bell a db at 1.5
My chain is the same as the first mix a few weeks back but this time the NEOS was used.
The NEOS has an energy and lower mid focus that pops out at you right away. Before I dismantled my old chain, I did a very stringent test for my ears. If this had been remotely close to a gimmick I would be returning it. As soon as I plugged it in I heard something different. Its definitely an high volt energy.
It absolutely has more width, better center focus and more girth.
Ribbon mics on vocals......here are some famous examples of RCA
Ribbon mics on vocals......here are some famous examples of RCA 44s at Gold Star.
[="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGW3PXD39k"]Wrecking Crew & Phil Spector - (PHILLES 124 - Backing Track) - RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS (1964) - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Wrecking Crew & Phil Spector - (PHILLES 124 - Backing Track) - RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS (1964) - YouTube[/]
[[url=http://="http://www.youtube…"]Sonny & Cher 1966 recording session footage - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Sonny & Cher 1966 recording session footage - YouTube[/]
mberry593, post: 398600 wrote: Ribbon mics on vocals......here a
mberry593, post: 398600 wrote: Ribbon mics on vocals......here are some famous examples of RCA 44s at Gold Star.
[="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGW3PXD39k"]Wrecking Crew & Phil Spector - (PHILLES 124 - Backing Track) - RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS (1964) - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Wrecking Crew & Phil Spector - (PHILLES 124 - Backing Track) - RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS (1964) - YouTube[/]
[[url=http://="http://www.youtube…"]Sonny & Cher 1966 recording session footage - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Sonny & Cher 1966 recording session footage - YouTube[/]
Priceless! I can smell the dust on the tubes.
And ya see why those vintage mic's have that warm sound to them, you could smoke in the studio back then.
And ya see why those vintage mic's have that warm sound to them,
And ya see why those vintage mic's have that warm sound to them, you could smoke in the studio back then.
LOL.... yup. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was mandatory. I'm not convinced that part of the character of those mics wasn't the singer smoking a Lucky Strike while sipping a tumbler of Johnny. :)
Very nice job on the track, by the way, Chris. An interesting treatment that is by no means unpleasant. Very warm. Fragrant. I can almost smell 1952. (LOL)
Seriously though, I can certainly see the benefit to the hybrid process.
Of course, (and yeah, I'm blowing my own horn a little bit here), having a decent mix to start with probably doesn't hurt, either, right? ;)
DonnyThompson, post: 398019 wrote: The point is that this
Here is how Waves now works. You have to choose one of three options.
1. The authorization is done over the internet. This allows you to use your plug-ins on any internet connected computer. This is the situation you described.
2. The authorization is associated with one computer only. No internet connection required.
3. The authorization is held on a USB flash memory stick. No internet connection required.
I am using #3 for my Waves plug-ins. I don't connect my workstations to the internet.
In the past, Waves used an iLok. I wish they would return to that system. No, I don't like iLoks any more than anyone else. It is just that I need to have an iLok anyway for everything else. Waves is the only thing that I use that has a different system so I now have to have 2 usb devices.