Hi Al, welcome.

The human ear is the best "microphone" around :)
Another problem is that the human head has two microphones in an almost perfect stereo placement.

I would try a Sennheiser MD421 near the speaker for a bright sound with a nice bottom.

Or you should try a stereo pair of condensers like Neumann KM(1)84 or AKG C451 at some distance from the speaker.

Find all about stereo placements on http://www.dpamicrophones.com (microphone university)

Hope this helps.

i'm partial to a 57 on the cone (with some experimenting on exact mic placement)...

and an Audio Technica 4033 a few feet back.

watch the phase on the two, i usually reverse phase on the room mic, but it depends on a lot of things.

you could probably start with a room mic set about where you sit......

then move the mic around at that point, to find the "sweet spot" in the room sound...

you can blend these two sounds together, or pan them hard, depending on the effect you want, and how you mix them.

when using a room mic, it can radically alter your depth perception of the source sound, and the overall tone....

this is something you've really got to experiment with, but can lend to some really nice sounds, if you've got a GOOD room........

OMG ... is this THE Al Oomens? Did you go to Glenbard North HS, live in Glendale Heights, and have a wife named Liz??? If so, do you remember Mike Hannon, Greg and Dave Kremel, Jim Sokolowski, Bill Terry, and "brudder-bro Steve"? Do you still have an uncanny knack for turning guitars into firewood? Hehehe ... I still remember that massive Altec PA you had in your parent's basement!
I'm quite sure it's you, or I wouldn't be asking these silly questions. Email me at synergetek@yahoo.com to find out who this mysterious recording forum administrator is!

Yo, Bro! I see you're searching my recent posts for a clue. Hehehe...
I got your email and sent you one ... go check it out!

OMG,
All mics' change the sound in the translation. Even the most accurate of mics adds or subtracts something to or from the sound. If someone would come up with the mic that "hears" exactly like the human ear, the world would beat a path to their door. But even human ears differ set to set. Herein lies the rub. There is no standard and it is really impossible to set one. It is all very subjective. The best advice I can offer on this subject is to experiment with it. Try several different mics placed in various positions until you come up with something that is acceptable to you. This is where the art is. I like all the mics' mentioned for guitar cabs... 57, 421, ATM 4033. A Neumann U 87 is nice too. There are many more to numerous to mention. But it still is going to depend on what is needed for the song. I regularly use one or two of all of these mics' on guitar amps. ..... Fats
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It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!

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I hear alot of praise on the AT 4033 for guitar and vocal micing. I also hear the same for the 4050. I heard on another forum once. That the 4033 is the same as the 4050, only differance is the 4050 has 3 poler patterns and the 4033 doesn't? is that true? And can anyone tell me some differances between the two?

My understanding is that the 4033 has a 3/4" diaphragm and the 4055 has a 1" diaphragm... someone correct me if I am wrong here...

Yes this was my impression also. The 4033 has always been termed a medium diaphragm condenser while all the ads call the 4050 a large diaphragm. Fats

I have been very happy using an SM-7 or M-88 on clean electric guitar amps. Give it a try.

jason

Well, I've played around a bit with the SM57 and it does sound good. But it does sound differant than what I am hearing.

Your absolutely right, placement makes a huge differance in the sound. It's almost like having a new effects pedal, or EQ. Cool!

While it does sound good with 57, I would still like a fuller sound (and still be able to fit it in the mix). I think maybe using the 57 with some type of condenser further back as many have suggested.

Several people have recommended the 4033. What about the AT 3035? It's less than $200.00. or even better yet, the Studio Projects B1 ($79.00)? Gotta try to save some cash for that DAW (right SOS?).

AL,
Jason was referring to an SM7, not a 57. The SM7a (best) and SM 7b are a broadcast voice over announcers mic . The most common example of these in use is Robin Quivers on the "Howard Stern Show" that runs on E! Don Was who produced the good records that "Bonnie Raitt" made also likes these mics for vocals. I have one of these and it is very warm sounding. Try one, you'll like it! .... Fats

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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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I want to bring up a point.

I record guitar with stereo microphones, evenly spaced, 14 inches away.

See, I do not like the sound of the guitar with one of my ears plugged as it ruins the depth of field and the dynamic integrety.

I mic cabs the same way. The phase cues of the room are awesome.

I am just a huge fan of recording as many instruments as possible in STEREO for the real sound. You will be pleased with the difference.

OK, I thought he just missed the '5' in SM57. I'd love to try them out, but the price is a bit high for me right now. I'd also realy like to try out ribbon mikes, but at about 1000.00 or more it's just not possible right now. Is there such a thing as somewhere that rents mikes?

I had been thinking about using stereo mikes too. I really love the depth of recordings done that way (Bill, have you ever heard Clifford Jordan - Live at Ethyl's?).

When you record guitar cabinets with 2 mikes 14" back, how far apart are they, what type of mikes are you using, condensors? cardiod or possibly omni? I would also assume they would preferably be matched pairs.

Since I not in the business, and making money on recording (and have 4 kids :-), I have to choose carefully what purchases to make, and get the most bang for my buck. So, I REALLY value the opinions of those who use this stuff regulary, and DONATE the time to read and answer questions for those of us who are in the learning phase.

Thanks Fats, Bill, and everyone else here!
:tu:

Al,
Glad to be of assistance. If you were in LA, SF or NY you could probably rent a mic. Try calling around a few of the local studios and ask them if they rent or if they know someone who rents mics. I picked up my SM7a for under $300 on EBay. You might try that. Try to get an SM7a as opposed to the SM7b ... the "a's" are supposedly better. Fats
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey,

To the original "poster", clearly there as many ways to get a guitar sound as there are guys recording them. But To specifically try to get the sound that you hear infront of the amp as your playing-- I imagine it is a really sweet sound that makes you want to play all day, at least it is for me-- and you only have a 57, then try moving the mic around and back off the grill maybe a foot. Rugs or hard wood floors will make a big difference, try both the amp sitting on a rug (and the mic as well) and try them with the wood floor bouncing the sound back up. If it is linoleum, I don't know what to do ;) .

Also, you may want to get another mic, consider a ribbon which I've never used but is supposed to be sweet on an amp. The Blue Dragonfly is very sweet on an amp and a cheaper than a royer. Also, a really effective way to get the sound you hear is to record two or three tracks of the exact same guitar performance. Mic the amp with your 57; then: run an unadorned direct signal from the guitar (using a DI box or splitter that lets you run a signal to the amp and a signal out to your recording set up), and/or (2 or three track,what every you can do and whatever gets the sound you want) mic the guitar like you were playing an acoustic with a nice flat or maybe relatively bright condensor on your guitar. This three track thing alsow works on bass. I've not had phase problems, but I also stand in a different room than my guitar amp when I do this.

This months Recording magazine has some articles on guitar recording also.

later,