I wonder what Brandt is saying that is making you promote this person who is mostly self promoting?

John is another in a line of persons who self promote "his" calculators and spreadsheets and knowledge....heck I remember when he couldn't cross his T's nor dot his I's structurally speaking.

Look into his work portfolio and tell me you couldn't just as easily be looking at John L. Sayers / Hidley based designs.

Hey, more power to him, but let's not turn men into magicians when we all read the same books, fair enough?

Brien Holcombe, post: 438620, member: 48996 wrote: I wonder what Brandt is saying that is making you promote this person who is mostly self promoting?

First of all, there's a difference between promoting and just simply posting things people, especially beginners, or people who ask what type of this or that, before they even know what db level they are trying to block. My hope is that these types of 101 questions, don't have to be answered thru written word time and time again.

Frankly, I like johns approach. He's a smart enough guy to use a delivery format that people use and understand. Will my you tube vids be deeper, more demonstrative, and give away real techniques, yes. He's doing what I started conceptualizing a year ago, just not exactly how I'll be doing it.

It is possible brien, to share someone else's work, or information without being a "pusher or promoter". Are you suggesting I have some sort of stock in the posts I've been putting up lately?

Johns a seems like a genuinely good guy, and generous on the forums, and self promotion is just part of it. How else do you advertise your a studio designer? How else do. You stay current? You have to do these types of things if your living depends on it. It's not like we're talking bathroom remodels. These are specialized projects, that are relatively few and far between. And John is one of the least obnoxious self promoters out there on the forums. I can point to some others, who merely respond with links to their products each time.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438620, member: 48996 wrote: John is another in a line of persons who self promote "his" calculators and spreadsheets and knowledge....heck I remember when he couldn't cross his T's nor dot his I's structurally speaking.

Well I happen to like rods, but they aren't available on the site cited in the book anymore. And I'm learning excel to make my own calculators for things, which don't already have good ones. What calculators do you use, when your designing and treating studios brien? Why not share the wealth ??

Brien Holcombe, post: 438620, member: 48996 wrote: Look into his work portfolio and tell me you couldn't just as easily be looking at John L. Sayers / Hidley based designs.

Way ahead of you on that one buddy, you think I'm going to post something like that before I see this guys work, and talk to him? He's absolutely not shy about his influence, and recently wrote an essay on Hidley non-enviornment style rooms. It's acoustics brien, it's not like Sayers and Hidley invented it.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438620, member: 48996 wrote: Hey, more power to him, but let's not turn men into magicians when we all read the same books, fair enough?

Who's saying he's a magician? Who said anything like that? I was sharing some potentially helpful info that isn't over here on this site, but which many members could potentially benefit. Basics and acoustic calculators are things we encounter all the time.

Let me start this publicly, and I have no problem making it private.

What is your problem brien? All you do is tell people their wrong, without ever suggesting a pro-active solution, helping them find right way. I can't put up one thing lately, without you alluding that I'm pushing and advertising. Your not even a moderator. And further brien, you talk a good game, and maybe your portfolio is a mile long, but for someone who's such an acoustics fan, I've never seen any of your builds. Never seen any essays you wrote on anyone's designs, or your own. Never seen your designs at all. Never seen you calculate an accurate listening room. Your website doesn't suggest your studio specialist at all. In fact it suggests your an everyday contractor or carpenter.

Seriously man, your really so negative, condescending, and presumptious, in your responses, that anything of value you have to say is overshadowed.

If all your gonna do is say my posts are wrong, promotion oriented, or nobody is as good as Sayers or Desart, then why don't you keep your responses to my threads, to yourself. I'm not saying I haven't found you helpful and interesting, I have, but I've had enough of your negativity directed at me.

Again, you may have rebuilt abbey Rd studio 3, for all I really know, but I just haven't seen any of your work. So until then, I'm not going to turn someone into a studio expert, just cuz they read some books, and tell newbies their wrong, rudely, from behind a computer keyboard. I'm not looking to fight, I am looking to settle this. I don't know it all, nor do I claim to, and I'm not afraid to learn from my elders, peers, or anyone else. I can be comfortable around other knowledgeable people, without getting into a pissing match. It seems you have a bone to pick with anyone who knows, or wants to do anything related to acoustics.

-Kyle

I stand by what I said.

It might be you who needs to reevaluate what it is you are doing in the field of acoustics and WHO that newbie is, if your thinking is that there are newbies attempting to learn something from these guys who aren't really teaching anything.

And if they ARE teaching, then to direct them to the books and documents that are accessible would be a far better service. This is not a video game nor is it a one size fits all. It can at times be hard work on the part of the one assisting a troubled design in the attempt to correct it, hopefully before it gets crapped out by utube videos, but my experience with this is that it is usually AFTER the damage is done that someone wants to enlist help.

Like that knucklehead that is scheduled to post his build thread starting today, on recording.org. My guess is it will be so full of errors and garbage that it will only continue to portray that even a monkey can do this type of thing.

The small issue is two fold. Acoustics in general is a field of study, it isn't bass trapping and the like. And the first place that gets over looked is the structure. In the mind of far too many, acoustics applies to the interior and that is all someone needs to consider. But it starts in the dirt. It starts when the slab is poured and continues to nailing the last shingle. So the over simplification of the entire notion often requires more text to be placed in a post just to answer simple questions...because the utube videos are not getting the job done because for the most part, they do not concern themselves with that because math is scary, ugly and outside of the ability of way to many musicians to be troubled with it...and as often the video producer.

You call it negative, I call it a difference of opinion. Directly to what I have designed I answer, nothing. Not a damn thing from start to finish have I designed in the arena of recording environments. What I have worked on are potentially hundreds of builds around the GLOBE often not being able to speak the language, either from the start or at the finish but more often than not it is that in between area where damage is being done or has been done or is about to be done that I have been involved. That is my strong suit, because of my 40 year construction background 10 of that in residential and multifamily dwelling acoustics I can look forensically into the construction of builds and if there is an error, I can find it. If someone has the where with all to answer specific questions on parts of a build that are not visible...I can address that as well.

See, this is what I do. I do not go over in the microphone forum and tell some wackjob that his mic is turned 90 degrees out of phase. I don't give out mixing help. If this website did percentages on where people post MINE would be 95+/- percent in this area, because it is what I do. If you can build it I can reverse engineer it and ask you questions about things you did not even know you should be worried about.

JohnLsayers has that percentage thing, and I think I am at 60% in the Construction area. Why is that? Because the utube world says acoustics is one dimensional and only applies to the inside of a room AND you would be surprised at what musicians will call support and or load bearing framing in the attempt to save a few dollars or as often, just from ignorance of craft.

I am not a moderator, you are correct. Frankly I have no idea what that even means to you because I was chewing up raw text and spitting out 2X4's as far back as the turn of the Century. Me being a moderator before may have been a little gas on the fire, but the fire is always me.

In the world that I live in, we spend peoples money, we know where to cut costs where not to. How to get over and around problems even before they are right in your face. And I have never had a structure or remodel or ANYTHING fail because I did not know what to do. When structures fail people die. I do NOT build junk and no one around me will either. And they will not pass off inaccurate information as factual. Like I said, you will rarely find me anywhere but here because I am a professional, not a hack, I have read more about the acoustics aspect of residential, multifamily dwellings and structures than I EVER read about house building/remodeling.

Does that answer your question in any small way?

I am always surprised at people that will attempt to get their "10,000" hours in on a musical instrument and then are surprised that acoustics in general requires years of education to implement correctly and that anyone with a hammer and a circular saw can be a carpenter, because neither of the two is true. But they do not want to hear that..."gimme a video and I can design this thing, build this thing and it will be freakin' awesum!"

Many prefer to walk the well worn path of gentle nudging so as to either not offend others or to be seen as argumentative and certainly they would never dare to suggest that there is a chance you will fail at this. Because everybody gets a trophy.

I embrace the path that I walk on, the grass is finely mowed and at the end of the day what I have learned from the Masters continues to survive because I burn down the illiteracy that casts a shadow on my path.

Brien, maybe it is you who doesn't know about who he is talking to. I've been building things and re modeling for 20 years, I'm 32 years old. When I was 9 I bought "thrasher ramp plans", and using algebra, I built a 1/8 scale model of a 8x22' skateboard ramp called a half pipe. Then I built the real thing, alone. I've spent years on carpentry crews, I was a maintenance guy, for 2 commercial properties, one residential. I've worked plumbing, dug knee walls by hand, all that trade work. I'm classified as 'highly intelligent' according to standardized tests, finishing junior college w a 3.6 gpa, and I finished high school at the end of the junior year. I dropped out of state college as a finance major w a 3.2, mainly because I'd learned what I needed with finance, and teachers who don't speak English well, should learn. This came in handy because I got expelled for showing up stoned to a senior dance, my fellow star athlete, who was also busted that night, played in the game the next week. Since I got rods book about 8 years ago, I've steadily taught myself how it all works. And I've got plenty plenty more to learn. From philosophy to physics, I study daily. Computer engineering is my topic of interest lately. You'll find that if I'm talking about something, I'm usually either well versed and or curious. I'm equally at home talking construction, music, science, and I apply methods and theories from all of these areas, to everything I do. I'm entering my prime well equipped.

I've got the rare combination of intelligence, determination, and obsessive sense of detail. This makes me a candidate to do well in acoustics, which is really just an interest of mine, it just happens that it's a sought after skill, relative to audio engineering, or original songwriter. I pay dearly in other areas of my life, to balance these 'advantages'.

I learned from mistakes of my own, and as importantly, others mistakes. Others mistakes are fascinating to learn from, and we know there's many many many made in acoustics. It's because the information that is correct, is not readily available, as much as it is ignorance. If it's not readily available why would the average club gigging, day jobbing, mucisian have any idea what to do?

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: What I have worked on are potentially hundreds of builds around the GLOBE often not being able to speak the language, either from the start or at the finish but more often than not it is that in between area where damage is being done or has been done or is about to be done that I have been involved.

Physically, or via online forums?

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: If you can build it I can reverse engineer it and ask you questions about things you did not even know you should be worried about.

I think if you have a hard time finding incorrect statements, you'll try to find something, anything, even if it's irrelevant, just to point out something 'incorrect'. You rarely present solutions, after these things you point out. It's easy to point a finger, a lot more challenging to dig in and get your hands dirty.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: JohnLsayers has that percentage thing, and I think I am at 60% in the Construction area. Why is that? Because the utube world says acoustics is one dimensional and only applies to the inside of a room AND you would be surprised at what musicians will call support and or load bearing framing in the attempt to save a few dollars or as often, just from ignorance of craft.

I've been doing this long enough to never underestimate the amount of hackers, and mis information. The YouTube world you describe, is exactly why someone like me is going to put good info out there. Because while I'm by no means a master, I'm as well rounded as it gets, and have learned through real, hands on experience, and from some of the best and worst around.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: I am not a moderator, you are correct. Frankly I have no idea what that even means to you

What I meant is, you allude to things like me 'promoting, or pushing' things, which isn't true. This is the type of things moderators are in charge of.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: And I have never had a structure or remodel or ANYTHING fail because I did not know what to do.

Me neither.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: I do NOT build junk and no one around me will either.

My question, was how many of these studios your so well versed in building, have you actually built?

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: Like I said, you will rarely find me anywhere but here because I am a professional, not a hack, I have read more about the acoustics aspect of residential, multifamily dwellings and structures than I EVER read about house building/remodeling.

Reading is one thing, building and experiencing the process, and results first hand, is different.

Brien Holcombe, post: 438625, member: 48996 wrote: Does that answer your question in any small way?

Sorta, from what I gather, your an intelligent, very well read member of various online acoustics forums, who doesn't have a whole lot of relevant original material to their name. You criticize John for using well regarded design principals, whatever your angle was to dis credit him. Where is your original papers on designs, techniques, and considerations, on whatever your an expert in? I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts on common mistakes, or improvements, of multi family dwellings. Seems like an area you've payed attention to.

I'm the kind of guy who goes straight to the top for info. The people I've learned from are some of the best around. From techs, to acoustics, to mixing. I've spent hours with great minds, agreeing, disagreeing, and learning. If you'd like me to name them, their projects, or their financial successes and failures, I'll be happy to. George augsberger ever tune any rooms you worked on? Skill and luck combine sometimes. Criticizim that isn't constructive, is simply bitterness projected outwardly.

The bottom line is you just wanted to discredit John Brandt, for some reason. Only you knew why. But he's doing something right, with 20 projects going, an insane CAD rig, and a career in music or design that pay for his life. And there's no real reason you can discredit him.

I've got no problem with differences of opinion, or even negativity, I have a problem with people criticizing people for no apparent reason, especially, when the person being criticized, is successful in the field of acoustic design directly.

So why not point out some specific issue w johns designs brien? Why is his use of non-enviornment rooms no good? Reverse engineer one of his rooms for me. I'm all ears.

"hey guys. Ran across this while I was surfing the web. John has a good set of papers, and great acoustic calculators on his site. I made sure to save them in my spreadsheet program. I haven't watched them all yet, but I'm watching a few right now."

Who do you think you were talking to when you posted that? Nothing on this mans website is his own work in respect to great acoustic calculators, or good set of papers. It is all someone else's work...all of it.

Everything that you suggest is worth the readers time is available from the real authors should you spend time and locate those origins.

In respect to the videos proper, it isn't even acoustics 101. It's some guy stammering over terminology that he has heard and cannot repeat correctly.

I get it, your feelings are hurt.

Fine, get over it and get something of value from the horses mouth and stop that insane quoting everything that someone says.

So you dodged the request I made yet again. I was asking you to prove why your opinion is worth anything more, or more original, than the man you criticize.

Where are your builds brien?

Where is your original contributions to acoustics?

Brien Holcombe, post: 438640, member: 48996 wrote: Everything that you suggest is worth the readers time is available from the real authors should you spend time and locate those origins.

I've already spent the time, John isn't telling me anything I don't know. The point of posting a video is so people can learn visually and audibly. Not everyone learns only through reading.

My feelings aren't hurt brien, belive me if you knew the half of it, and the world I come from, you would unsterstand that im lucky if feelings are the only thing that get hurt. I live in a rough place, Google New Bedford, MA. See what the crime rates, unemployment, and drug overdose rates. see if you grew up around here, youd reallize some guy insulting lay people's education level about acoustics, and acousticians who actively work in the field, is laughable. It's easy from behind a keyboard to spew garbage, with no repercussion. You see brien insecurity, inadequacy, and fears, are what cause people to belittle others.

I've just suspected for a long time that you weren't a studio builder, and didn't have any credits in the field. I'm just annoyed with know it all attitude that you have, just because you read some stuff.

Again, if johns is so bad, where is your original essay? Where is your video? What I'm saying is you gotta walk the walk, if your gonna talk the talk, and in the past 5-7 years I've been around RO, I've only seen the latter from you.

So you blanket that "all of johns work is someone else's" on his site, yet don't point to anything specific. Same tactic you always take. You don't elaborate on who he stole or borrowed from. You don't prove a point, you just make wild acusatory statements. Worse. Your not even an acoustician, or studio builder. Your literally bashing people who work AND make a living, from the pseudo science of acoustics, a science you seem to think you have a better or perhaps more original? Handle on.

So let's see and hear some of your work, before you go critiquing others work, let's see you prove how you do it better. Again, you criticize John for being un original, where is your original work? Your just parroting a different group of people, who were parroting the people who came before then.

The acoustics field won't change into anything but the same ol drag until there's significant innovation in materials, and there's a significant boost in computer simulations, which can't currently quite cut it.

I'll keep on keeping my ears and eyes open, for your reverse engineering of one of johns rooms, since your so familiar with his un original stuff. Feel free to post any of the construction pics from the studios you've built.

Johns, not here to even defend himself for goodness sake. I don't even know him, other than some casual conversing over the Internet. I'm not even intending on defending him, he didn't do anything wrong. im simply statin not only are you being hypocritical, by citing unoriginal material references, as your argument for calling someone else unoriginal, you don't even seem to have any real world cred in the field at all. It's not like he copied you brien, and it's not like you have contribued anything original or mind blowing to the field.

My expectation is you will again dodge the opportunity to show you've done anything of worth in the field of studio acoustics. Vicarious builds need not apply.

I don't know much about Isolation, just the basics.. I enjoyed his videos. Lots of options and some background on each.

Feels like you could use his primer on construction choice with his resource info and work with a contractor to build what you need properly.

Where the info comes from or whos calculations he is using to me is irrelevant as long as it is accurate and possible to do construction wise.

Getting down to 14 hz with 13 inches of space and 3 layers of drywall sounds killer.

Chris Perra, post: 438658, member: 48232 wrote: Getting down to 14 hz with 13 inches of space and 3 layers of drywall sounds killer.

Drooool. What an amazing experience it would be to work in a room like that. I think just as most people have caught on to recording by now, the next logical step is acoustics will be more demystified for everyone. Between the gear, and remote realtime collaborations (cloud recording), and better rooms, with less "soundproof foam" and more efficient treatments, home recordings are going to be quite good across the board. (Well mix screen display...).