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anonymous 14 April 2005

I was just wanting some feedback on pros and cons of these two.
I was look ing at getting a PC built by sweetwater using Digidesign specs. When I asked the sales guy what the hype for the macs was he said "your just paying for the mystery and cooldaddy status of having a Mac". Whats up with that? I'm buying a Digi 002rack LE . Anyone?
thanks

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Marching Ant Thu, 04/14/2005 - 11:08

Amsterdam72 wrote: When I asked the sales guy what the hype for the macs was he said "your just paying for the mystery and cooldaddy status of having a Mac". Whats up with that?
thanks

Wel yes, Mac's do look cooler :D

I used to be a PC guy for as long as i could remember. Then i got Pro Tools, and a custom built PC from a local company, using Digi's specs. Altho it was decent, it seemed to crash much more that a friend's Mac running the same version of PT on a slower Mac.

thats when i decided to switch over to the mac.

I found the transition was VERY easy. the OS is very easy to use and straight forward. even my grandparents could figure it out

Also, there is alot less customization on a mac. its a little more "plug and play"

Now i have a Powermac G4 933mhz single processor. its the version before the quicksilver. I am using Mac OS X 10 and PT 6.4 on a Digi 001, and it runs very well. crashes happen about month at most, and the rig is used every day for at least 4 hrs.

The drawbacks to the Mac is that they cost a bit more, and they (depending on the PC) tend to not be able to get as much processing power for plugins, altho that may not be true anymore with the G5s. i havent used one, altho im planning on getting one soon.

hope this helps

Kev Thu, 04/14/2005 - 14:01

It's not mystery

I have LE systems on both but I only have a Mac for my TDM system.

Mac gives access to software like FCP and Logic.
PC's also gove access to software that doesn't run on the other.

I get use out of my Macs long after the PC's are sent to the garage.

There is much to like about the way a Mac works.

anonymous Thu, 04/14/2005 - 14:27

I'm on the Mac side. Don't measure the PCs and Macs by processor
speed. It's all different OS and the final speed is quite different too.
The big studios have Macs, lots of them like to work with SDII files
which are not supported on PC - compatibility issue.
I have Mac G5 double CPU 1.8 GHz, runs PT LE from November with
no crashing. There're G4s double-processsor on ebay below 1k. Just
mind - some of G4 models have a damn noisy fans... With 2 CPUs you
can assign one 100% to run PT. It helps. PT LE is not TDM, it needs
processor power.
But if you also need to run Cubase or some PC soft stick with PC then.
Keep researching... The only thing is really important - you are happy
with the setup.

anonymous Fri, 04/15/2005 - 16:40

Another mac vote. I run a 002R with a G5 Dual 1.8 with 2 gig ram and a Rosetta 800 and it makes money for me every week. At 44.1 24 I can run 3 full bandwidth waves IR 1 convolution reverbs plus EQ's and compressors on 20+ channels plus the waves mastering bundle( broadband EQ ->multiband compressor->L2) on the master, all at once. No chipset variables, a way smaller target for hackers, and a CPU that has everthing you basically need that works immediatley with software that has been designed from the ground up to work on a mac. The only suck is the supplied mac mouse which I gave to the cat and bought a wireless optical with wheel.

Markd102 Sat, 04/16/2005 - 07:02

Once upon a time.... you needed a mac if you needed stability, plugin choices, PTLE feature sets and ease of use. These days that's not the case. PCs have pretty much caught up in every respect.
Since WinXP my PC (with a 001) has literally crashed once... and that was because a memory module bit the dust. PC's have access to almost all the major plugins, including McDSP which used to be a mac-user's biggest bragging right. With version 6.7 the feature set is almost identical. And ease of use... well that pretty much comes down to which system you know better.
So for me it came down to the fact that PCs are cheaper.... and the fact that single processor Athlon64's are out-performing dual processor G5's. (proven on the DUC by benchmark tests on both sides)

But all that aside..... you should buy the system you are most comfortable with.... because in the end, that's when you'll produce your best music. Both systems are equally capable.

anonymous Mon, 04/18/2005 - 03:07

i guess once you go mac you never look back, there are a few reasons for it most of them have been already mentioned, i know a lot of people who run really old macs (including myself, did not had a reason yert to change!! he is still doing all the work... very well), and they still perform brilliant and give still enough speed, comparing to PC's where i know that my collegs swooping every 1 to 1.5 years to a faster one. also software like peak, logic, DP are still native to mac and stable!

but i would suggest stay away from digi hardware, spend your money clever and buy a firewire metric halo I/O or motu instead and run logic

the converters and pre's on metrivc or motu are soooo... much better for the money you will spend.

the price difference on the comp is not really great, if you get a decent PC with the same high quality specs like good burner good fast drive,etc. you spend more or less equal money...

took-the-red-pill Mon, 04/18/2005 - 08:01

Hi dudes.

Interesting to hear so many Mac Votes. I was once virtually castrated here for daring to mention that Macs might just be superior. Personally I'm not into hype, legend, or any of that hearsay crap, but I'm a Mac man at heart. the computer I'm writing this on was built in 1994 and the only time it ever crashes(rarely) is when I'm using MS Internet Exploder. These are the Honda Accord of the computer world, and that's not just legend.

I could be wrong but I personally believe that 90% of the trouble with stability, security and general BS with PC's has to do with Windows. Like I said, that's just my opinion.

Apparently OS-X is based on Unix, which runs the whole internet. So now we finally have the world's best user interface running on top of the world's best operating system.

Now having said that...my Dell arrives in 3 days. I've joined the Dark Side. I'll tell you why:

It wasn't so much a platform decision as a music software/budgetary decision. I've decided to go the Cubase route, due to personal preference, the cost of entry, and I believe it has more power for the money. I checked out this site

http://www.carillonusa.com/clnweb/performance.jsp?country=US

The results of these tests tell me that PC's run 40-50% more plug ins and tracks and such on Cubase, yet a Mac runs 40-50% more stuff on Pro Tools. Interesting and perplexing. I guess PT must have been written for the Mac, something which I can't prove.

So if I were going PT, I'd spring for the Apple, but with Cubase, I'll be going PC. I just hope I don't regret my decision.......

cheers
Keith

Marching Ant Tue, 04/19/2005 - 12:48

Markd102 wrote: [quote=took-the-red-pill]....yet a Mac runs 40-50% more stuff on Pro Tools.

WRONG!

On what basis?? the DaveC benchmark test or in the real world??

Im not trying to nock the validity of the test, because it is a great test to see how far your system will go, but thats as far as it can be taken. When you're in a session, they'll act differently, and so far every one of my experiences has shown me that a MAC outperforms a PC

example: A mix i did on a G5 single 1.8 processor with 32 tracks and a fair amount of waves/bombfactory plugs was to be transfered onto a new AMD Athalon 1.7. both computers had 1gig of memory, but the PC wouldn't play anything. We had to ditch about 7-10 plugins out of about 50ish before the PC would play, and even then, it was sluggish. The meters jumped, and if you tried to switch windows, it would stop playback, but the mac would play it flawlessly.

iznogood Tue, 04/19/2005 - 18:09

top speed and price are NOT the most important things to me....

reliability is one.... and don't say "stability problems on pc's are a thing of the past and xp fixed it all".... it's simply not true

ease of use.... easy setup.... and general quality feel of machines/operating system/user interface is so far ahead on mac that windoze machines seem like they're thrown together in a hurry leaving a mess...

as a pro on mac (like in sitting in front of protools 10hours a day for a living) you get the feeling that you can trust your system.... with windoze you're always in doubt if "something" is going on.....

i understand that not everyone can afford a mac and for them pc's are indeed cheaper.... but as with many other things cheaper is not better...

anonymous Tue, 04/19/2005 - 21:25

axel wrote: sorry, i am shure you will...
cubase is a toy, crap to be precise..

Where do you get off making that judgement?

Do you use cubase? Do you consider you opinion subjective, or absolute? Do you think you're helping someone with a ridiculous statement like this?

I use Cubase and absolutely love it. This being said after trying cakewalk sonar & pro audio, cool edit, and n-tracks. Those are fine programs too, I just like the feel of cubase better.

As for protools, I haven't tried it yet. But I certainly wouldn't jump the gun and call it a toy.

Posts like that are completely worthless.

As far as Mac vs. PC, just use what os is comfortable for you, and just record already. There is no reason to make the platform switch just because you think one is 'better' for audio. Both are very comptetent systems with proper care & use.

took-the-red-pill Tue, 04/19/2005 - 23:44

Whoah!!! Next time I walk into this room I'm bringing my flame proof vest!

Chill out dudes...they're just boxes with funny knobs and pretty screens that are good for music, accounting, and porn. It's not the end of the world if we don't all agree.

There's no sense in us all getting all pi$$ed off about which is better, when we all know deep down in our hearts that Macs and PC's are pretty much equal...well, except for the fact that one invented the concept of point and click, and the other only copied it...years later...badly...through about 8 crash prone versions.

Well other than that they're the same...except that one is known for stability and the other is known for making it's owner rich.

Well other than that they're the same...except that one decided to put the world's best interface on UNIX, the world's best operating system, and the other put yet another interface on top of DOS, in the vain hopes that THIS time maybe they have it right.

Well okay, other than that they're the same.

Oh well, all my statements and unfair sweeping generalisations are probably...

WRONG!

Hey...this is kinda fun

anonymous Wed, 04/20/2005 - 00:12

[end pointless thread]

No "flames" here, took-the-red-pill.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Honestly, to the person that started this thread....what platform you record on is the least of your worries. Just stick to what you're comfortable with. You'll make the best music there.

I think someone already stated this earlier.

[/end]

anonymous Wed, 04/20/2005 - 07:30

itchy wrote: Where do you get off making that judgement?

working since about 10 years with computer based recording systems.
mac / pc
proo tools / cubase / logic / DP / audion / etc.

yeah, this is an opinoin, after long experience and several selfmade tests with a friend and live sound engineer of mine, i have to say that about any product of steinberg totally sucks sonically, so far, maybee they will come up with decent sound engine programming in the future... about the GUI that's definetely a mater of taste, but i hate cubase, becuase lots of often used functions (in a pro fast inuative working flow are not accessible fast enough... my opinon!!!) i like logic because it 's soundengine is bar none awsome and i like personally the GUI it's logic................ DP and proo tools are good as well...
cubase started of as a home / hobby production package and etried to evolved, in my eyes!!!

about mac / pc i agree with iznogood
all over there are hundreds of reasons why macs are better specially for audio, but most of it has been mentioned, and i don't know any pro except one producer from london (who regreds his decision!!!) has ever swapped from mac to pc, but at least a dozen of my collegs swapped to mac and havn't looked back since, not even once, including myself, main reason, they just work...
and you don't have to worry aboyut the f*&*ing computer and you can go on with your work and produce, write, record, and remix MUSIC...

anonymous Wed, 04/20/2005 - 09:32

hey axel rose, relax buddy.

thank you for clarifying your experience with the systems. of course your entitled to your opinion. but just saying "cubase is a toy" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to a lot of people. and it certainly doesn't mean you're right.

a computer is a smart as the operator. i've had pc's that don't crash and have worked wonderfully for me. i've also known people with macs that are new to them, and have had many problems. there are certainly not "hundreds of reasons" that one platform is better than another. that's ridiculous.

as far as "what pro's use", that's ridiculous too.

well, i guess you don't have to know computers to record audio. that's what macs are for. maybe that's why there "better" for you.

i enjoy building, testing, and tweaking computers. every pc i've had has worked absolutely fine for audio. there's no reason at all for me to switch to a mac.

anonymous Fri, 04/22/2005 - 08:22

Guys, guys... easy now...

Working in a pro studio for a major label, I see what the "pros" are using every day, and as far as the time being is concerned, it's Mac, Mac, Mac. Everyone that's anyone is using them.

Logic seems to be the platform of choice for writing, Pro-tools for recording.

Anything else is essentially semi-pro or amateur platforms.

Personally, I've used (and still use) PCs exclusively, and have the Mac-PC debate on a weekly basis at work.

Going back 10 years or so, the PC was an unstable platform, and if you don't know how to set one up properly, you can come into problems fairly easily, but with a little applied knowledge, you can run very safely on a PC.

Personally, I can't remember the last time either of my PCs crashed (one desktop XP2100 with 1GB overclocked to 2600, running 98SE, one laptop 3GHz running XP), and I run Logic 5.5, rewired to Reason.

On the other hand, I'm in a band with a guy running logic native on his mac, and his crashes all the time. Go figure.

Anyway, word on the street is... since the Apple buyout of Emagic (who make Logic), Digidesign are now a bit p!ssed off with Apple and in the future, their plan is to concentrate on the PC market. Still just rumour, but it makes sense. Expect to see Apple-Logic hardware equivalents to the HD rigs in your shops soon.

Unfortunately, since the Apple buyout of Emagic, there'll be no more releases of Logic for PC. Thanks Apple... Thapple.

Anyway, there's many benchmark tests around regarding the Mac-PC duel, and Apple have even retracted their original "fastest desktop computer in the world" tag from the G5 bumpf since they realised that there's only one piece of software in the world that the Mac out-performs the PC.

What is that piece of software?

I'll give you a clue... go to the G5 page on the apple site and see which benchmark they've chosen to add to their site.

Drum roll please.....

The only software that the G5 outperfrms the PC is....

Adobe Photoshop.

Logic and Reason rule, as do PCs, but if you've only a basic knowledge of computers and don't know how to set them up properly, then I'd recommend you spend twice as much money as you would on a PC, and go for a Mac instead.

After all, all our industry pros are using them so they must be good, right?

Besides, Bill Gates could kick Steve Jobs' backside in a fist fight.

anonymous Fri, 04/22/2005 - 11:40

I'll take my mac anyday... you see, pcs don't run DP

good reason. very good reason in fact. because, see, it actually is reasonable! :D

main reason, they just work...

horribly ridiculous reason.

I think OlympicPhil has said it best so far. Most people think that because the "pros" use it, they should. Whoever the "pros" are...

Most people I find that are anti pc have been doing this for quite awhile. In other words, their views are a bit antiquated. They don't realize the improvements on the platform that have been made.

My suggestion to anyone who tries to argue this though, is that you might want to do a little computer reasearch before you make that judgement. IMO, its not about benchmarks or which system runs faster. For most home studios at least, this is not going to be an issue. You get what you're comfortable with and make music. You need to know your computer. By the way Phil, I too know someone who has had a lot of problems with his Mac.

Anyway, most of this is redundant. This debate should be the least of anyone's daw worries.

dispelling the myth,
-eric.

anonymous Sat, 04/23/2005 - 16:19

My 2c

I had been a PC guy for years. I built the PC I wrote my PhD thesis on.

The last 2 PCs I had were HP Pavilions. They were so horrible/ unstable I couldn't justify selling them.

I used to do tracking on a korg D1200 as I just didn't trust the PC not to crash, which it would do 3-5 times a day.

I gave them both away and bought a G5.

The G5 is just incredible ! The only problem I have with it (well with Logic 7 Pro) is that I can only use one input device at a time. This is being fixed with the new OS.

anonymous Sat, 04/23/2005 - 16:58

There is no great advantage to what you use they both do the same thing there are pros and cons with both systems and if someone feeds you some bs that macs dont crash dont believe them... i use both so im not a big mac or pc fan you should just use what your comfortable with if you use a pc every day and have never used a mac then get a pc or vice versa i personally like to use both for different things

jonnyc Sun, 04/24/2005 - 12:24

I just wanna say that I'm a pc user for life. You can't get good games which sounds dumb but I like games. I also feel like I have more options with a pc different processors(AMD 64 is way faster than a G5 2.5) ram, so on. However I also own an Imac 20 inch
G5. I've had that for about 7 months now and I've never ever had one single problem with my mac. My pc is just over a year old, I use it for Cubase and video games, I run pro tools on my mac. My pc crashes, freezes, or just plain won't work on a pretty regular basis. I can't ever get cubase up and going decent basically its a 3000 dollar pc that barely runs Doom 3. My computer guy who is very knowledgeable with both macs and pc's has never had to touch my mac, except to play on it but i have to call him honestly every single week to get my pc running right again. The biggest drawback to a pc is when a virus is written for pc its hard to beat it because microsoft guards their software while a macs os software is basically free and open so when a virus is written its easily disabled. Sorry I don't know the technical speak of what I just said I was paraphrasing the computer guy.

anonymous Tue, 04/26/2005 - 23:43

As a rule, viruses should never be a problem on a music PC. If they are, you've made a grave mistake by ever connecting it to the internet in the first place. That being said, I run Cubase SX on a PC based system and get great results (my client - yeah.. my one client could not be happier.) Unless of course the payed $60-$80/hour to go to a pro studio.

My one friend has a ProTools LE rig running on a MAC and honestly, I think my mixes come out marginally better. Of course that could just mean I'm that much better than he is.

I did however have driver problems with my interface but that turned out to be between the manufacturer of the interface and the motherboard in my PC.

anonymous Wed, 04/27/2005 - 00:00

As a rule, viruses should never be a problem on a music PC. If they are, you've made a grave mistake by ever connecting it to the internet in the first place.

hey bbbitter, just curious, what other problems besides viruses do you see in a daw connected to the internet?

To me it would seem that having a computer connected to the internet would be fine for music, provided you have proper firewall/virus monitoring and such. at least that has been my experience.

i've run two different setups now, both connected to the internet. it hasn't slowed anything down for me. i think you just have to know what you're doing, in all cases.

----------------------------------------------
wow, i just looked at the title of this thread. this has gone so far off track.

jonnyc Wed, 04/27/2005 - 15:21

hey bbbitter as far as your mixes coming out better than your friends is probably like you said, just because you're better at it. Me and a friend of mine have identical systems, his mixes always sound better, he just has better ears, i think a good producer could get almost indistinguishable versions of songs on any software.

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