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hueseph 30 November 2011

Well. .that's the slogan anyway. There is a presentation and official launch of Pro Tools 10 and HDX. As much as I love to bash Pro Tools, I sincerely think this new platform will be a game changer. The new HDX cards are seriously powerful and Disc Cache is going to make a big difference in the way people work with audio. Once they go the full 64bit, there will be no stopping them.

Now for an investment of $10000 you can have the power of an HD3 setup with up to five times the power and an omni I/O at nearly 1/3 the price. It's looking very nice. Of course, I may just be buying into the hype but we shall see. For those of you unable, unwilling or entirely uninterested, I'll be taking notes. If they let me, I may drag my handy cam along.

Thursday December 15th at 5:30PM

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hueseph Thu, 12/15/2011 - 21:34

Well, the presentation was impressive. HDX is pretty amazing.

Brian Carter: Producer/ Avid Specialist.

David Casey: Avid Representative

Running HDX 10.1 Beta. The hardware is not shipping yet. The Software for HDX is still in Beta.

5 times power]
4 times track count
4 times delay comp
4 times the headroom(32 bit float)
Hybrid system: By this they mean that the plugins can run both natively and by way of DSP.

As an example they ran a post session from Kick Ass. 256 tracks with plugins on each track.

Clip Gain

  • Regions are no more now they are referred to as clips.
  • Clip info at bottom of region. Real time fader which is accessed via an icon at the bottom of the clip.
  • Clip gain line. Not automation envelope. Like a line representation of a fader.
  • Highlight region to adjust gain or can be penciled in. You can highlight multiple clips and adjust their gain simultaneously.
  • An alternative to compression. Like riding a fader but continuously adjustable and independent from the fader, unlike automation.
  • Clip gain not effected by Audio suite plugin render.

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Audio Suite Enhancements:

  • More than one rtas plugin open at a time! Finally!
  • Audiosuite follows handles. Pull handles and audio suite follows clip region
  • Grab and move highlighted crossfades in real time.
  • Reverse button on Dverb applies reverse reverb to track

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By Request from Brian Carter:

ProTools 10 does work with RTAS.

More on that in a bit.

New Plugin Format AAX:

AAX 64 bit ready. DSP AND NATIVE!

Channels Strip:

I can't really explain it but it's very cool. The mouse acts as a smart tool within the graphic view of eq and compression. Q is very easily adjustable within the Graphic view of the eq as well as attack, threshold, ratio in compressor.

On The Other Hand:

The very cool thing about AAX is that it can be run in both DSP and Native mode. That means that Heat and other plugins that were strictly TDM can now be used with an HD Native card. I don't know that this means they can also be used with a non HD system. It may be that these plugins will be available for purchase and/or with CPTK 2.

The thing that concerns me is that once they do go 64 bit, RTAS will no longer be supported. So, although PT 10 does support RTAS, the next incarnation of ProTools will render any and all of the plugins you may have purchased in RTAS mode useless.

It may be that some companies will offer reduced upgrades to compensate. One would hope.

This all touched a sore spot. I had to ask in regards to UAD cards. They had only just been brought on as an RTAS developer. That's great but once ProTools goes fully 64 bit, where does that leave UAD users? I know that UAD had expressed that they would offer a free upgrade to 64 bit drivers and plugs but, RTAS are not 64 bit.

This means one of two things:

  1. UAD will be re-coding AGAIN to AAX (and maybe the new AAX plugins will be able to run on UAD dsp power. I highly doubt this since this will mean that more people will be making use of the Avid plugins via the UAD which means less income for UA.).
  2. Avid are trying to thin out the competition.
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    It just seems a bit low otherwise. I really hope that they've brought UA in on the AAX deal.

audiokid Thu, 12/15/2011 - 21:59

Good work Hue.

Its stirring the pot and that part I like. I'm the same as you John. I haven't been on the DUC in years, but have been sniffing around lately.

My gut feeling is the new HDX is going to be good on paper but possibly unstable for a few upgrades. This whole need to run hundreds of tracks with plug-ins is loosing my interests. But who knows, I may turn the ship around and chase it all too. For now though, its looks to be a lot of hype, overkill and grandeur many don't need.

hueseph Thu, 12/15/2011 - 22:11

I can honestly say that if you are a post production suite, you will want HDX. It absolutely will speed up your production and shrink your cost in the long run by a large amount.

For music, HD Native is probably more than enough. And, though I honestly think ProTools does actually "sound good"(I know this is something debatable for most of us. Even I doubted there could be audible differences in DAWs until I accidentally heard a difference that I didn't intend on), Cubase sounds just as good and has many of the same features. Clip gain in by another name and efficient disc management along with many other very desirable plugins.

hueseph Thu, 12/15/2011 - 22:19

Something else that bothered me is, when asked about the release date for 64 bit, the answer was "I don't have a release date. It could be in the next twelve months. I could be later. It could be sooner." But, the push for A.S.S. support program for the "free upgrade" to 64 bit was a part of the promotion. What if 64 bit comes out in 15 months?

I realize that the support program is more than just the free upgrade. It's about free tech support via email, phone or online for one year. Chances are you are going to use it but, you and I both know that they are counting on the fact that people are going to buy into it in the hopes that they will get the "free" upgrade to 64 bit. It's a bit evil. Kind of like selling snake oil when they've got the medicine on the way but it'll cost you to get the real thing.

audiokid Thu, 12/15/2011 - 22:27

Not to turn this into a slammer again. I hope HDX kicks serious ass. I hope it actually sets a true audible standard and holds to it. I hope it will be rock stable and be everything I could ever dream of or hope for. But in the mean time, I have Sequoia 12 on order and it is right now, pretty damn close to everything I could hope for. It has all the plugin you need standard, and they are all steller ( well as stellar as plug-ins are).
What I need is a virtual recording and mixing system that works. Something that can be used equally well with both software and hardware that doesn't tie me to one company should i want to expand gracefully. Samplitude does this right now and it is all 64bit. $3000.00 for the software. The hardware is your choices of the world.

hueseph Fri, 12/16/2011 - 08:07

Regarding UAD and AAX. I feel relieved to find out that UAD are in fact developing for AAX.

A New Plug-in Format, Really? Avid Answers Our Questions About AAX and Pro Tools

Universal Audio intends to support AAX Native in conjunction with UAD-2 DSP accelerators * exactly like we have just completed with RTAS support in UAD Powered Plug-ins v6. There is no announcement as of yet as to when the transition to AAX will be complete but we are actively developing and committed to the Pro Tools platform. Pro Tools 10 does support RTAS and initial testing with UAD plug-ins shows it to work just like Pro Tools 9.

As for the significance question, for UA moving to AAX Native should be similar to our recent migration to RTAS * although it will be easier for us now moving to AAX since we have fully invested in direct Pro Tools development and better understand the Avid SDK

anonymous Mon, 12/19/2011 - 11:42

hueseph, post: 380938 wrote: just a note. I've been seeing a few HD1 Accel cards going for well under $1000. Some as cheap as $600. Maybe I'm a fool to think this but, i wouldn't be ashamed to own last decades model and PT10 HD. It would still be a huge upgrade for me and far cheaper than PT10 and CPTK2.

Just don't forget to go all out with that committing to an old computer, OS and PT version for quite a while.

There are still studios producing professional product with v6.4 and G5s (rock solid).

hueseph Mon, 12/19/2011 - 17:47

Thanks for chiming in. I'm actually running Pro Tools 9.06 right now. It's fine enough for me for the moment. It sure would be nice to have that processing power though. I'm happy to use last years software or even PT 10 which is the last release that will support the Accel cards. Burning bridges is something Avid uh.....excels at. The pun is implied. I know I didn't spell it like a pun. :tongue:

audiokid Mon, 12/19/2011 - 19:20

I have to be honest I have thought this too but for no smart reason other than just because its Pro Tools and a deal. Its a carrot but maybe a good one. dunno...
Keep in mind, its a dead end, no support and the computers running it are also at a dead end soon. All the new upgrades, plugins and third party will call for the latest OS. Its tempting and a good thing right now but...

I think you are better off getting a Mac min, PT 10 and a killer converter and building as you need. Either way you look at it, wait until they are dumping them one after the other. There will be a time no one will even want the HD system. We don't really need all these plugin do we? I keep asking myself why everyone needs so many plugins.

For those looking at spending big money, Sequoia 12 is going to be a monster and it will also be Mac or PC within the year.
There will be a Sequoia announcement here after the holidays.

hueseph Mon, 12/19/2011 - 19:42

audiokid, post: 380954 wrote: For those looking at spending big money, Sequoia 12 is going to be a monster and it will also be Mac or PC within the year.
There will be a Sequoia announcement here after the holidays.

Alright. Looking forward to that.

As far as ProTools is concerned. I still might do it. If the price is right. It may be last decades tech but that doesn't make it any less useful. We aren't talking bout a mix system here but and HD1. I will still need to get a worthy interface.

RemyRAD Mon, 12/19/2011 - 21:52

Like Microsoft Windows, I really don't like any companies that try to become the monopoly or corner the industry. Now that Apple Final Cut Pro seems to be fading, Avid is on the offensive to take over. It might be better but should we all allow this to happen and at such a high price? 10 grand for a box? It's still PCM it's not DSD. So it's got fancier taillights, a nicer interior, more powerful engine. That's fine for the folks that can afford that. While I've spent nearly enough money to purchase a house with my equipment, so far, I don't know any Neve nor API analog gear that has become obsolete in over 40 years. This is just more planned obsolescence like Detroit. Computers may be improving exponentially but audio isn't. Violins are still violins even if you can get electric violins. I don't see those in Symphony Orchestra as yet and they've been around for years. Just because they may be electrified or " better " is no reason to leave certain traditions behind. Until we get a better digital recording format and the equipment in which to support it, it's all Detroit all over again. And we all know where that went.

Plus, Pro Fools is now finally catching up to the way other software has been working for a while. Bravo, they have awakened from their catasonic state of mind. It's about time. It's about space. It's about two men in a great big place.

Probably great for TV post applications.
Mx. Remy Ann David

hueseph Tue, 12/20/2011 - 21:56

audiokid, post: 380963 wrote: Either way Hue, a big step a damn fun one indeed! If you did this, when would it be you think?

I'm biding my time. I want to see what happens when HDX finally get's released. I may never upgrade the software if I can get the card. I may talk myself out of it. I don't know. It will be a long term investment if I do dive in, but a cheap one.

BobRogers Wed, 12/21/2011 - 10:21

RemyRAD, post: 380967 wrote: ... Until we get a better digital recording format and the equipment in which to support it, it's all Detroit all over again. And we all know where that went...

Oh Nooo! An audio company owned by the US government, the UAW, and a geriatric management team....and a hybrid DAW that will burn down my house.!

hueseph Wed, 12/21/2011 - 15:19

RemyRAD, post: 380967 wrote: Until we get a better digital recording format and the equipment in which to support it, it's all Detroit all over again.
Mx. Remy Ann David

As much as I see the humor in Bob's Quote. I think you're dead on with that prediction. Unfortunately, the apathy of consumers does not merit a better format. They don't even care to buy music anymore. Music is just something you hear in the background, at the club and you download it for free. Nobody buys a stereo to listen to music anymore. It's all those horrible sounding earbuds. And, I don't care how much you paid for your in ear buds, they still sound like crap compared to a decent set of speakers. Man, they sound like crap compared to a cheap set of speakers.

At any rate, I'll have to settle with last decades technology because hey, it's still new to me. I just think of it in terms of processing power. My computer is getting old and upgrading the CPU, though I could do it, would be just barely worth the $150-$200. It's still useful, just not super fast by today's standards.

BobRogers Wed, 12/21/2011 - 17:09

One part of Remy's analogy works very well. By the late 40's/early 50's the Detroit auto had plateaued as a point A to point B in stop and go traffic car. From there to 1973 (and the anti pollution regs) cars go bigger, faster, more muscular, but didn't really change much in their primary function. But of course, if you got out on the open road there was a big difference. You could get down an open highway a lot faster. Similarly, you probably have a tough time hearing the difference between something recorded in PT6 and PT10. But the workflow is a lot different. We can do things a lot faster now.

But in one way the analogy is unfair. If you bought a 1957 Chevy and put 100,000 miles on it, it's about done. If you have the original equipment with PT6, it probably runs as well as the day you bought it - maybe a new hard drive here and there. So it's one type of planed obsolescence (feature creep) but not the other (where the stuff is designed to fall apart at some point.)

hueseph Fri, 12/30/2011 - 19:06

So, I'm weighing the options here. I was looking into a Symphony system $1000 just for the card. An RME PCI system, which is out of date, PCI card and Multiface probably around $1000 maybe less. MOTU $1000 or more. I really want to go PCIe or PCI. Now I'm seeing [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]this[/]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]this[/] . $1500 for a PCI HD Core card with a 96 IO and PT 8 HD with an iLok. I could probably find the PCI card and interface for $1200 or so but for the extra bit, I get the software and likely an amnesty update to 9. It will not be compatible with PT 11. It's not an Accel card and it's PCI not PCIe. It SEEMS like a great deal that will probably last me a good 5 years or more of decent functionality.

Somebody talk me out of this or reason with me. Bob?

anonymous Fri, 12/30/2011 - 20:56

hueseph, post: 381644 wrote: So, I'm weighing the options here. I was looking into a Symphony system $1000 just for the card. An RME PCI system, which is out of date, PCI card and Multiface probably around $1000 maybe less. MOTU $1000 or more. I really want to go PCIe or PCI. Now I'm seeing [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]this[/]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]this[/] . $1500 for a PCI HD Core card with a 96 IO and PT 8 HD with an iLok. I could probably find the PCI card and interface for $1200 or so but for the extra bit, I get the software and likely an amnesty update to 9. It will not be compatible with PT 11. It's not an Accel card and it's PCI not PCIe. It SEEMS like a great deal that will probably last me a good 5 years or more of decent functionality.

Somebody talk me out of this or reason with me. Bob?

I wouldn't touch a PCI HD card without a PCIe to PCI expansion chasis. Beyond that the system is way overpriced for a PCI core card. Those thing are selling for less than $500 by themselves. If you find the same price for a PCIe card I would jump, but I think this is a rip off.

BTW I used to consult, install and support HD systems for a high end retailer. I talked to my guy there the other day and he said that PCI are dropping in price daily. Not a bad deal if you have a chasis and can pick up a core and 6 accels (for $1500) to deck it out, but other than that, stay away.

hueseph Fri, 12/30/2011 - 21:01

theDAWstudio, post: 381652 wrote: I wouldn't touch a PCI HD card without a PCIe to PCI expansion chasis. Beyond that the system is way overpriced for a PCI core card. Those thing are selling for less than $500 by themselves. If you find the same price for a PCIe card I would jump, but I think this is a rip off.

BTW I used to consult, install and support HD systems for a high end retailer. I talked to my guy there the other day and he said that PCI are dropping in price daily. Not a bad deal if you have a chasis and can pick up a core and 6 accels (for $1500) to deck it out, but other than that, stay away.

Thanks. Good to hear from someone in the know. Not sure about the PCIe expansion. Would that be necessary? My puter isn't particularly new. I still have PCI slots.

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