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jdsdj98 16 May 2003

Just for the record, I'm mainly a VO/post engineer.

So I'm recording a project for some friends, and we're presently tracking drums. Been pretty happy with the sounds so far, but I'm wanting to tweak the cymbal sound a little. This drummer stays away from his hat a lot in favor of his ride, and often gets off the bell and starts driving it more into a crash sound. Problem is it sometimes gets a little "clangy". I'm wanting more sizzle out of the overheads. Here's the setup:

Kick - Beta 52
Snare - SM57
4 toms (2 rack, 2 floor) - SM57, SM57, Superlux CM-H8B (LD condenser), Groove Tubes GT66
Hat - Oktava MC012
Snare Bottom/Kick beater side - Blue Baby Bottle
Ride - Oktava MC012
Overheads - 3 Superlux CM-H8B

I've been thinking of pulling the 3 overheads, picking up another SD condenser (probably a 451) for the hat, and using a pair of SD condensers in X-Y as overheads. I really don't want to create any phase issues using the 3 overheads. It's a physically large kit, thus the decision to use 3 OH's. It's been pretty difficult to build the overall drum sound around the overheads, since he's so cymbal happy. This is being recorded in the band's soundproof basement rehearsal space, so room mics really wouldn't be beneficial, I think. The desire here is very much an up front, in your face, powerful drum sound, so a good mix of the close mics is gonna be the route to go. The rest of the setup is very much on the "project" level, an 01V into a digi001. Wish we had some outboard pre's. So, there's the details. Bottom line - more "sizzle" and less "clang" out of my overheads. Suggestions?

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jdsdj98 Fri, 05/16/2003 - 11:50

Thanks, Tom. I've actually been trying that exact approach on playback so far, and it helps a little, but not much. I've got good rejection in the tom mics, yes. I guess I'm looking to avoid a situation where I have to "fix it in the mix." If I can solve this with mic selection/placement, I'll be happy. Although I really do think it may be a case where it's just the way he plays and the way his cymbals sound. The ride sounds great, lots of sheen, when he's on the bell. It's when he gets outside of it and also gets into using some of his crashes as rides that the problem rears its ugly head.

KurtFoster Fri, 05/16/2003 - 12:46

Cycle60,
I think you are on the right track with your idea to use fewer O/Hs and to go with the 451s. I haven't heard the reissues but I have a matched pair of ORTF 451s and a couple others and my experience with them is the are a bit thin sounding without a lot of mid and low end. Especially when they aren't being used close up where the proximity effect comes into play. I have always found them to be excellent for getting that silky sheen on the top end for cymbals. The problem may also lie in the actual cymbal itself. If it's one of those super thick jobs, they are just plain mid rangy and "clangy". As I have said before, drummers just seem to like things that have obnoxious tones. Kurt

jdsdj98 Sat, 05/17/2003 - 17:12

The band's gonna buy me a 451 as part of the payment for the job, and I'm gonna pay for one as well, meaning I'll be picking up a matched pair to use as OH's. I tried out some budget SD's as OH's last night, and it made a world of difference. However, closer examination revealed that out of his 4 main cymbals, 3 were rides and only one is a crash, so yes, Kurt, we're dealing with some thick, clangy cymbals. Guess I'll just make the best of it.

anonymous Mon, 05/19/2003 - 09:17

I have found (being a drummer ) obnoxious stuff works fine for live where you are trying to cut through a wall of sound, but in the studio I have bought and used the thinnest smallest set of cymbals I can find. It makes a WORLD of difference. You don't have all the problem of thick overtones, and the balance between the cymbals and toms /snare seems more appropriate.

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