Skip to main content

Full PA System, feeback pls :)

Hi all,

Worked out a system for use in a church with a hall size of about 20 metres x 30 metres x 15 metres high. It will currently only have 100-200 congregations. Would like comments or feedback if possible :)

2 x 31 band Berhinger EQ
2 x dbx-160A compressor
2 x REV100 FX
3 x PS3500S amp + 6 x A12M Monitor
2 x PS5000S amp + 2 x 218V Sub
2 x PS7000S amp + 4 x C-115VA High mid

As for mixer, I am looking at a 32 channel mixer with minimum of 32 channel, 6 Aux and 4 sub-groups. I was very interested in the GB4 but is slightly out of my budget.

Can anyone recommend a "cheaper" console than the GB4 but has the same specs?

Cheers,
Roi

Comments

IIRs Fri, 09/14/2007 - 17:46
sheet wrote:
I can stand before God with a good conscience

What does that mean? Given that "God" is apparently whatever you want it to be, so can I. So can the people that flew planes into the WTC.

sheet wrote:
If people would get off of their butt and go to church, Christians would go to the sick, imprisoned and elderly, there wouldn't be such a need.

Where is your evidence for that assertion? I put it to you that the truth is [[url=http://[/URL]="http://moses.creigh…"]exactly the reverse.[/]="http://moses.creigh…"]exactly the reverse.[/]

sheet Fri, 09/14/2007 - 18:12
I can stand before God knowing that I did not waste money, I did not sway people to buy something other than what was right for the job, given the criteria and budget at that time. We Christians are called to be "good stewards" or good managers of what we are given. We are not to spend foolishly. There are many designers and churches that swap gear like it is a fashionable textile. They buy the latest and greatest for bragging rights. I am not that type of guy. I know that money could be better spent on reaching/helping people.

Kent L T Fri, 09/14/2007 - 19:24
We have done both built and equiped a "comfortable" church with pretty decent media production capabilities and yet we support the needy. There may be some churches that do not but of the ones I have attended none of them have disregarded those in need. To their ablilities they have helped out those in need.

The "church" (in the business sense) is changing just like everything else now days. Yet even out of church it has been pretty standard that about 25% of the people do the work while the rest of society reaps the benifits. The churches I have attended have generaly been higher than the average. I cannot speak for all of them though.

When my life fell apart a few years back it was the people in the church that helped me put it all back together. There are a lot of loving and caring people in churchs some of which will help a person out even knowing they are going to take advantage of them. Unfortunatly the only church people you hear about in the media are people like Jimmy Swaggart and those who have messed up.

This was not the purpose of this thread though so I will stop.

IIRs Sat, 09/15/2007 - 00:52
Kent L T wrote: we support the needy.

You don't support ALL the needy though do you? Like the people with serious degenerative illnesses that could potentially be cured using stem cell treatments.

Or the women that need a safe & clean abortion.

Or the gay community.

Or any other of the minority groups that have been repressed and persecuted in the name of your god.

Kent L T wrote: There are a lot of loving and caring people in churchs

Yes I'm sure that is true. There are a lot of loving and caring people outside churches also. The only difference between them is the ones inside the churches have been conned into believing that their natural inherent goodness does not belong to them, and that they need to rent it from a priest.

sheet Sat, 09/15/2007 - 05:37
IIRs wrote: [quote=Kent L T] we support the needy.

You don't support ALL the needy though do you? Like the people with serious degenerative illnesses that could potentially be cured using stem cell treatments.

Or the women that need a safe & clean abortion.

Or the gay community.

Or any other of the minority groups that have been repressed and persecuted in the name of your god.

Kent L T wrote: There are a lot of loving and caring people in churchs

Yes I'm sure that is true. There are a lot of loving and caring people outside churches also. The only difference between them is the ones inside the churches have been conned into believing that their natural inherent goodness does not belong to them, and that they need to rent it from a priest.
We can't speak for all churches. Some churches do their best. Some do not. All churches are funded by the free will offerings of time and services and financial donations, in worship to God, out of the joy of their hearts.

That said, some churches like Rick Warren's Saddleback Community Church in CA do have gay outreach ministries, to assist those wanting to change their mind about their lifestyle of choice. The church is leading the way in AIDS efforts in Africa as well. PBS did a special on them. Check it out.

Homosexuality and abortion (murdering under-developed human life) is immoral and wrong according to the bible. Biblical churches do not condone the activities. A biblical church would supprt a soon to be mother in crisis though. Many ministries do. There are many denominations and para-church organizations with large scale safe homes for battered, sexually abused and pregnant moms, singles, teens, etc. The SBC has a large operation like this.

It sounds like you are an unbeliever in God. God is not about religion. He is not what you see on the TV. That is a bastardized commercial version to make people rich. If you were to read Gods words to us in the bible, then you would see that the creator just wants us to love him and love the others around us.

You make some generalizations that are not true for all. Yes, there are some people outside of a church doing "good" things. God can use anyone (and does) to accomplish his will. But, those good works don't outway the shortcomings in life.

"God love the world, and gave his only son, that whosoever believes in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to God but by me."

"By grace you are saved (reserved from the wrath of God) by faith in Christ. It is not by works, because some men would boast. All of your works are as filthy rags."

IIRs Sat, 09/15/2007 - 18:45
sheet wrote:
We can't speak for all churches. Some churches do their best. Some do not.

I can speak for all churches: they are institutions founded on lies, which exist solely to provide an easy and comfortable living for the priest / parasite class.

sheet wrote: That said, some churches like Rick Warren's Saddleback Community Church in CA do have gay outreach ministries, to assist those wanting to change their mind about their lifestyle of choice.

"assist those wanting to change their mind about their lifestyle of choice." ???

I think you meant to say: "convince these poor misguided people that their loving relationship / unfulfilled sexual urges are evil and will result in their eternal damnation."

I consider this a form of torture. Gay people have no more choice about their orientation than you have about your skin colour. You might as well try to "help" black people by scrubbing their skin with wire wool in an attempt to make it whiter.

British Medical Journal wrote:
Abstract:

Objectives To investigate the circumstances since the 1950s in which people who were attracted to members of the same sex received treatments to change their sexual orientation, the referral pathway and the process of therapy, and its aftermath.

Design A nationwide study based on qualitative interviews.

Participants 29 people who had received treatments to change their sexual orientation in the United Kingdom and two relatives of former patients.

Results Most participants had been distressed by their attraction to their own sex and people in whom they confided thought they needed treatment. Although some participants chose to undergo treatments instead of imprisonment or were encouraged through some form of medical coercion, most were responding to complex personal and social pressures that discouraged any expression of their sexuality. While many participants found happiness in same sex relationships after their treatment, most were left feeling emotionally distressed to some degree.

Conclusion The definition of same sex attraction as an illness and the development of treatments to eradicate such attraction have had a negative long term impact on individuals.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7437/427

sheet wrote: The church is leading the way in AIDS efforts in Africa as well.

Leading the way in dangerous misinformation: according to the Catholic Church condoms help to spread HIV. Preaching this to AIDS-ridden Africans is tantamount to mass murder.

sheet wrote: Homosexuality and abortion (murdering under-developed human life) is immoral and wrong according to the bible.

I do not accept the bible as a source of morality. (after reading chapters such as [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.awitness…"]Ezekiel 23[/]="http://www.awitness…"]Ezekiel 23[/] how can you? Do you honestly believe it is acceptable to murder a woman and all of her sons and daughters becuase she is a prostitute?)

sheet wrote: It sounds like you are an unbeliever in God.

No shit sherlock. The concept of god is an insult to my intelligence.

sheet wrote: God is not about religion. He is not what you see on the TV. That is a bastardized commercial version to make people rich.

There is NO difference. You pass the collection plate around at your church, right? You pay your priest / pastor / whatever a good salary, right? Rather higher than the national average I would hazard a guess..? You are all equally dishonest and corrupt. (or self-decieving... but the outcome is still the same even then.)

sheet wrote: If you were to read Gods words to us in the bible, then you would see that the creator just wants us to love him and love the others around us.

I refer you back to Ezekiel chapter 23: I see no evidence of love, just barbaric and bloodthirsty murder, along with despicable double standards (what was god's punishment for all the men that "defiled her with their prostitution"? Nothing at all? )

It is high time you were educated better: morality does not stem from any religion, it is a contsantly growing and evolving thing that is shaped by our culture.

Do you honestly think that before Moses carried the stone tablets down the mountainside, all the jews belived it was ok to murder each other? Of course not; those 10 commandments were carefully chosen to fit with the mores that the people already held. Otherwise they would not have accepted it as the "word of god".

The problem is, once they have been usurped by a religion and declared "divine", moral codes ossify and struggle to evolve any further. After all, the word of god must be true eternally, right?

So we end up with a conflict: society's morailty changes (eg: we now accept that women are equal to men, and that it is not acceptable to murder them and their whole families for being sexually actuive.) but the word of god does not.

Religious people then have a choice: either they stubbornly cling to their out-dated mores and struggle to keep their society a generation or two behind the times, or they admit they were wrong and gradually moderate their views to avoid offending the innate morailty of their congregation.

Examples: the catholic church struggling to come to terms with the fact that it is no longer acceptable for "celibate" preists to bugger choirboys. Or the anglican church trying to avoid schism over the subject of homosexuality... note the way this debate is split by the way: african countries that still persecute gays mercilessly vrs western countries where homosexuality is legal and there are laws forbidding discrimination on the basis of sexual preference. In other words, the debate is not religious at all, it is simply a clash of cultures with moral codes that are at differing stages of development.

Religion therefore acts as a brake on morality, not as its source.

Consider the following two motivations for an act of altruism:

1. I do this because I wish to go to heaven.

2. I do this because I feel compassion for the suffering of a fellow human being.

Reason number 1 is used by suicide bombers. Can you imagine any plausible situation in which reason number 2 could be so abused?

Pro Audio Guest Mon, 07/02/2007 - 07:30
sheet wrote: They are in a small room, with 100-200 people and a loud band. I think this is like a bar situation. It's low budget, so nobody is going to design a system. The acoustics...well, there is likely no money for that.

He is going to need some processing if he is going to blast away, especially if the pastor is going to be using the system with a lapel, cheek mic, etc. I would say at minimum the dbx 260 or the Peavey processor (which some say smoked the dbx). He HAS to have some EQ.

Well...sheet is quite right in a way that there is almost no budget (though I am fighting for it and looking at finding $$$ to fund this sound system). And there is no money for acoustics, not now anyway unless we can grow the number of congregation :)

I am trying not to make it have those bar situation but yes, without proper planning and thinking, it will turn up to be a bar :)

sheet Sun, 09/16/2007 - 12:14
Forget catholiscism. That is not Christianity. That is not completely biblical. The Catholic church has done many things wrong in it's past, which I agree with you are crappy.

If you buy one Shure SM58, and it is bad out of the box...no, it explodes while pulling it out of the box, would you assume that ALL microphones are bad? Surely not. How many times have you found a hair in your food, or received poor service at a restaurant? Did you condenm and judge all restaurants, assuming that they ALL do that? Surely not.

You need to stop looking at men. Men fail. We are all sinful by our own choice. Our standard for church is biblical. It is nothing more than believers in Christ getting together to help one another and worship God. When not together they are to be the hands and feet of Christ, doing what he would do. If some organization sucks at it where you are (and churches ARE considered pretty much dead where you are) then don't assume that the lifeless un-Christian activity is universal, because it is not.

Homosexuality is a choice. How do you as a non-beleiving atheist prove that it isn't? If evolution is true and we have no intelligent designer, and homosexuality is natural, then how did to same sex cells procreate? They didn't. It's impossible.

Studies by several US organizations show that almost 90% of these homosexuals have been abused, had some trauma that has caused them to engage in it, or were TAUGHT it at a young age. It is not natural. I can send you some resources by non-religous study groups if you like. When God created man, he made a mate. It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. You can't hold a recording console together with all screws. There must be some nuts and lock washers, or atleast a whole for a self tapping sheet metal screw to go into.

You can't base your beliefs on science. Science is man's best guess at what is going on. Science changes. Health care changes. What is a "fact" today will change tomorrow when someone else guesses with better tools and a fresh point of view.

moonbaby Tue, 06/26/2007 - 13:45
What "specs" are you expecting a cheaper console to have equal to a $6000+ USD GB4? For less $$ (about half), I'd look at an Allen & Heath GL2400-32. Decent audio performance, better reliability over the Yamaha MG line, for example. The Mackie Onyx live desk is very nice, too, but it has less of a track record. And a REALLY nice alternative to the GB4 is the Midas Verona, but the price of that is up there with the GB4. And when it's time to upgrade your EQ, try to stick with a decent pro brand like Ashly, dbx, Rane, Audient, K-T, Symetrix, etc.

Kent L T Tue, 06/26/2007 - 14:31
You want 6 monitors in a church that size? Sounds like a lot of stage levels to me. In ear monitoring would be way better if you can swing it and keep the floor monitors to a minimum. It will make the sound man's job so much easier if he is not having to compete with stage levels.

ditch the berringer eq's.

Unless you have someone come in and eq the room for you the eq's might do more harm than good. (Well intentioned volunteers making smilely faces with with the sliders). If you do get them(a brand besides berringer) I suggest a locking front cover for them and hide the key where no one can find it.

My two cents worth

sheet Tue, 06/26/2007 - 18:11
rois wrote: Hi all,

Worked out a system for use in a church with a hall size of about 20 metres x 30 metres x 15 metres high. It will currently only have 100-200 congregations. Would like comments or feedback if possible :)

2 x 31 band Berhinger EQ
2 x DBX-160A compressor
2 x REV100 FX
3 x PS3500S amp + 6 x A12M Monitor
2 x PS5000S amp + 2 x 218V Sub
2 x PS7000S amp + 4 x C-115VA High mid

As for mixer, I am looking at a 32 channel mixer with minimum of 32 channel, 6 Aux and 4 sub-groups. I was very interested in the GB4 but is slightly out of my budget.

Can anyone recommend a "cheaper" console than the GB4 but has the same specs?

Cheers,
Roi

You get what you pay for. You don't find cheaper alternatives for the same performance usually.

Why 4 of those C115VA's? You can't array them. Any time you use multiple 15s like that, you are going to have some severe combing issues, not to mention the combing from those wide horns interacting.
If this is a short wide room, go with two 60 degree horns maximum.

You are going to have quite a mess with 6 wedges IMO vs. your mains. I would do small headphone mixer amps like the ones from Furman and headphones.

Behringer EQs are horrid. They will suck the life and headroom out of your PA.
x