well yes i do have a few...(amplitude and t-racks)
but for now I'm only a 16 year old who erally cont afford $300+ for a plugin ...so flame me if you want but i was just wondering f there is anyone else out there who finds these free plugins a help for beginners...
i dont know why i posted this
maybee cause i cant find a way to hack auto-tune:@
sorry if I'm making people angy.. :o teehee
-chris
Comments
Interesting to observe that PT HD bundles now come with Reason,
Interesting to observe that PT HD bundles now come with Reason, Sample tank and T-Racks. A sampler. a amstering suite, etc. Things PT did miss.
Any comments on this? AS Dave said, lots of folks are not considering going to HD yet because of too few plugs in the bundle.
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. You don't need it If yo
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. You don't need it
If you can't afford the payments, don't buy it. You don't need it.
If you can't live without it, get a second job.
Its called capitalism. You give me capital and I'll give you my ism.
May not be the best system, but its the one under which we operate.
I used to use cracks, until I came to my senses. I had a troubled youth, and I got into trouble with the law for theft. To make a long story short, I made a promise to God and myself that I would never steal again. And I lived up to that promise... Until I got my DAW. And I regret it so much.
Sampletank, Stylus, EXS24, Waves Gold, ES1, and some free stuff, like Crystal. And I actually find myself being more productive!
So until Waves starts bottling oxygen for the Mars colony we all live in, stop whining and save up.
mitz
I almost hate to post in a thread that seems destined for lockti
I almost hate to post in a thread that seems destined for locktitude -- I used to pour much into a forum here that got scrapped like old socks when the wearer hit hard ground.... oh, well:
Mitzelpik has hit on the truth, I think.
A real market place has two factors, supply and demand.
Yeah, I know that sounds like Marketing 101 on the first day of class, and it is, but it's there for a reason: it's how stuff works.
The supplier, who has foot the bill of development, sets a cost -- those who see the most pressing need pay it. Those who don't need it as badly can wait until the first tier of buyers dwindles and it gets cheaper. Buy yours at the end of a release's lifespan, get the upgrade thrown in, you save, you win.
Box & Solder vs. Software: Who cares? You buy what it DOES, not what it IS.
As far as cracks are concerned: these, in my opinion, are essentially bodypart-extension-attempts by massively misplaced minds. Anybody smart enough to crack protection codes should be smart enough to actually produce something. Next to soap operas, maybe America's saddest waste of time, talent and energy.
The guy who started this thread is looking for validation. It's Masters & Johnson all over again -- if enough other weirdos out there are doing what you do it must be OK, yada yada. Bunk then, bunk now: It's STEALING and you should STOP IT.
Having said that, I got a pile of cracked plugins that I downloaded to look at, including a fully-functional A****** A***-**** and about a hundred others. They are across the room here on my old 9.1 Macintosh. Hold on a second while I go over and delete the folder and take out the Trash.....
There. I feel a lot better now.
:cool: RW :roll:
Perhaps if the manufactures showed more ethics, the consumer wou
Perhaps if the manufactures showed more ethics, the consumer would too. Greedy manufactures have made this bed and then cry foul when they have to sleep in it. Overpricing and short product lifespan only encourages people to use cracked versions of software, with the initial greed of the manufacturer as justification. This issue goes to the core of the question, which is an industry that is intentionally failing to produce long lasting value for the sake of constantly recurring profits. I think this is unethical on the manufacturers part. IMO, there is no reason for Digidesign to charge as much for their systems as they do. There is no real reason their software costs anymore to develop than say Cubase / Nuendo’s does. So why is Cubase / Nuendo so much more affordable? The Digidesign converter hardware isn’t any better than an Alesis AI3. Why is it 3 times the cost? Apple computers are really no better than PCs. What makes them worth 4 times as much? Apple and Digidesign both seem to think that because their tools are used by pros (because the product has become entreched in the industry only by nature of being their first) to make money, that there should be a straight path from said pros pocket to theirs. I think a staggered 16 month lifespan is highway robbery. By staggered I mean Apple releases a new computer with a new OS, which forces the Digi user to upgrade their Digi system if they want to get into the new computer. Then 8 months later, Digidesign comes out with a new version of Tools which requires plug upgrades etc. I have seen this scenario repeat itself over and over in the past years. It is by design, not by accident. These 2 companies work product development hand in hand with Apple employees working at the Digidesign facility and vice versa.
Now please don’t take this as me condoning the use of cracked software because I don’t. I think it is wrong. But we can’t expect on the other hand for the consumer to have ethics and morals while all around them every day the corporate entities and trying to do anything they can to milk another buck out of the buying public in the name of “capitalism” or the “free market”. These companies could quite easily market the product that they will release in five years if they wanted to but they choose to release the technology in a trickle, squeezing it into 2 or 3 product releases as opposed to one.
The only way this will ever stop is if the consumer “smarts up” and refuses to purchase products from companies that engage in these types of practices, choosing instead, more affordable products from companies that don’t employ this 16 (staggered) month product cycle that Digidesign and Apple have cooked up. If they had their way, we all would be upgrading our systems every 8 months for very big bucks. Screw that !
Kurt, I do agree with a large part of what you are saying, in
Kurt,
I do agree with a large part of what you are saying, in fact, if I had lengthened my post, much of your argument would have been in it.
I detest our implementation of capitalism. It fosters greed, inequity, starvation etc...
However, we live in this system.
Sad to say, but if I were to boycott every product whose manufacturer has disagreeable practices, I would be barefoot, naked, and DAWless. I'm a man of principle and an idealist, but I must eat just like everyone else.
Which brings me to the reason of this post. I cannot deny the right of another to eat the best he can as well. If he's hit upon a way to create a continuous stream of income for himself, then its his job to live with the moral consequences, and God's job to punish him for his abuses.
OSX is out, but it didn't break 9.2. G5s are out, but they didn't stomp my G4 to pieces in the process. There are those who feel a need to have the latest and greatest spacely sprocket, and I must admit that I feel it too. But we can't blame the manufacturer (as long as the old product is still supported) for continuing to invest research and development into his product and releasing it, can we?
Now I agree that the endless lifecycle game is indeed a vampire bat to gear junkies like me, but would we rather developers rest on their laurels for a decade or two? How can we expect them to not desire to be compensated for further development? Apple and Digidesign are cashing in on a name. Wouldn't you if you had a trademark as powerful? Just like Levi or Nike or......
The devil must have frostbite because I never in my life thought I'd be defending capitalism....
mitz
If you can't afford it, you must judge whether you really need it. You must make that judgement even if you can afford it. In seven weeks I'll be a daddy, She's already profoundly changed my outlook, not to mention my life, in ways she won't understand for at least 25 years.
And I hardly ever buy a DAW product within its first 6 months of
And I hardly ever buy a DAW product within its first 6 months of existence. (partially due to budget restraints, to be honest, but mostly due to the desire to spend my money wisely) And I research a product's capabilities and limitations, not just the brochure. Reviews, forums, manuals; all invaluable resources.
And way more importantly, I research the developer. Like Sonic Reality and Bitshift ( I forgot to mention pHATmatik Pro in my earlier post, shame on me, its my favorite plugin; and Sonic Synth is on my short list). They sell products partially because of the quality of their customer support. Like Yamaha, Waves and Apple. They sell products partially based on their track record, because a buyer feels comfortable in knowing they are buying a product that many others praise.
This is how I hold DAW manufacturers and developers accountable. They sometimes drop the ball: Emagic/Apple come to mind, along with the Yamaha EX5. But who among us is perfect?
I'm not taking sides on either end of this debate, but I thought
I'm not taking sides on either end of this debate, but I thought that I should mention something just for the sake of painting a more complete picture.
Many people fault software developers for gouging their customers with such high prices for their products. I agree that the prices of some products are exhorbitant which is why I simply won't buy them.
But, these developers are creating products for a finite group of endusers and they're competing with other developers who have similar products. I think that it's a "Catch 22" situation for the developers and the reality of this situation is probably the major cause that many of them eventually go out of business.
As others have already said, a possible solution is to follow the caveats of supply and demand. If we don't immediately purchase that new "must have" plugin the developers will lower their prices. As for the Digidesign/Mac debate, that's a whole other story which is simply ludicrous in my opinion.
Hey, suppose a company like Waves or Bomb Factory goes banrupt.
Hey, suppose a company like Waves or Bomb Factory goes banrupt. what do we do with their stuff and future licenses/upgrades?
dbx 166A is project gear but it is yours, accumulating dust at your home if it is the case.
You can resell it for $100 if you wish, but who buys old plugs? I have waveshell 2.3 here, TC Master X 1.5, Masterlist 2.1.. all this money is lost!!!!
In my opinion lots of plugs are overpriced. Check the new Waves Transform Bundle. Is the coding to TDM so much more difficult than to (developing to) other plattforms? Maybe fees to pay to Digi?
Waves will, inevitably, go out of business. If their software br
Waves will, inevitably, go out of business. If their software breaks the day they do so, then consult an exorcist. A dead product will not be forever future compatible as time keeps on ticking, but does your car run forever?
Were you productive with that product during its lifetime? Then the money is not lost, rather invested.
Could you still use it today, but choose not to? IMO you did not spend your money wisely.
Are you prevented from using it due to reasons x y and z? Then you may or may not have a legitimate gripe.
Maybe TDM is more costly to code, but once again, the name dictates the price. Every single mass clothing manufacturer retails waaaaaayyyyy over cost.
Resale value is a part of the decision process when buying any product. But software is more akin to consumables in that matter. Unless you have a dongle or other accompanying hardware, you're stuck. That is why it is essential to consume wisely.
mitz
Originally posted by mitzelplik: Smart man he is, alecio. I be
Originally posted by mitzelplik:
Smart man he is, alecio. I bet his bank account belies that fact.
i hope this message didn't come off wrong, upon my second reading, it seemed to me that i was sarcastically saying your uncle was broke because of the car.
What I was trying to say is I bet his bank account is as round as the roof of his VW! Definitely a compliment.
I wish my car would last 53 years. I doubt very seriously it'll see 15, not to mention 10.
I apologize if you took it wrongly.
So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get so
So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get something you dont have to wory about not being supported or paying to upgrade it twice a year, then having to chuck it out with the new OS not supporting it, dont wory, you can buy a new one as i am sure the next model is just around the corner.
Who says you have to upgrade your DAW every time an upgrade becomes available? Hardware gets replaced as well...sure, not as oftern, but it still happens...and usually when that happens there's no "upgrading", you just sell (or keep) the old one and buy the new one in addition.
IMO, there is no reason for Digidesign to charge as much for their systems as they do. There is no real reason their software costs anymore to develop than say Cubase / Nuendo’s does. So why is Cubase / Nuendo so much more affordable? The Digidesign converter hardware isn’t any better than an Alesis AI3. Why is it 3 times the cost?
Cubase/Nuendo are so much more affordable because when you buy them, you're just buying software, where when you buy Pro Tools you're buying both hardware and software. For that matter, they're not necessarily more affordable...for the price of Cubase you can buy an M Box (hardware and software) and have quite a bit left over, or for the price of Nuendo you can buy a rackmount Digi002 (again, hardware and software) and you've got an expandable 8 I/O system. The HD systems are so much more expensive because of the hardware they come with.
As for the converter, which are you referring to? I'd put the Ai3 on par with the 001, which is (or was) twice the price but also includes software, two mic preamps (not great ones, though), and is an expandable computer interface, not just a converter. The 002R has four decent preamps and the converters themselves spec out better, can go up to 96k and sound much better. And again, it includes software and can function as a standalone computer interface, which the Ai3 certainly can't do.
Apple computers are really no better than PCs. What makes them worth 4 times as much?
They're more expensive because there's only one company building them. If you compare them to similar models from, say, IBM specifically, the difference isn't nearly as much. Or compare to something like a Carillon, which provides a similar level of reliability when it comes to music applications, and the pricing isn't far off either.
By staggered I mean Apple releases a new computer with a new OS, which forces the Digi user to upgrade their Digi system if they want to get into the new computer.
I've never been "forced" to upgrade anything. If someone "wants" to get into a new computer he or she isn't being "forced" to do anything.
The only way this will ever stop is if the consumer “smarts up” and refuses to purchase products from companies that engage in these types of practices, choosing instead, more affordable products from companies that don’t employ this 16 (staggered) month product cycle that Digidesign and Apple have cooked up. If they had their way, we all would be upgrading our systems every 8 months for very big bucks.
Or just don't upgrade every time something newer and better comes out. The system you bought six months ago can still do what it was able to do six months ago, despite the fact that there's something that came out last week that can do more for the same price.
Is the coding to TDM so much more difficult than to (developing to) other plattforms? Maybe fees to pay to Digi?
From what I understand it is a bit more difficult, but you also have to consider that there are far less TDM users than there are LE users or users of other platforms, so the plugin manufacturers have to be compensated for that extra work somehow. I'd rather have it that way, so that the people who are taking advantage of that development are paying for it rather than everyone who uses plugins from that manufacturer. Of course, it's easy for me to say that since I don't own a TDM system...
-Duardo
To thevessels, Yo the majority does have a point about using ha
To thevessels,
Yo the majority does have a point about using hacked versions because it really does hurt our industry, especially the programers. But I will admit to trying alot of these hackedplug-insand apps and understand where you're coming from, and I feel it's ok to do so from a TESTING point (to see if the program is worth buying). Who wants to buy a program for so many hundreds and even thousands and be unhappy with it. After trying the hacked version and you feel the product is a solid one to use for yourself, GO BUY IT. Anyways the hackers that make these hacked versions usually put that in one of the read me files to support the programers that create the programs you're using. Plus alot of the hacked versions have bugs in them. If you buy the products, you usually have less bug problems, have the option to update, support the programers that create the software, and help keep our industry going. Hey I'm currently trying to save up for Nuendo 2 thats been out for a while now and $1400+ is expensive for anyone dishout, but well worth it.
Originally posted by Tore member of Park: I would like to see
Originally posted by Tore member of Park:
I would like to see something like a "plug-in FMR" .. you know, good sounding effects at a reasonable price.... 40-100 USD.
Does "Free" legally tickle ya?
Do you have a VST-compatible host?
Go here:
http://www.btinternet.com/~intergalactic/a-z.html#A_Link
All freeware plugins - for VST, DX, and VSTi.
Are some of them dodgy? Sure. Do a lot of them sound like shit? You bet. But there are some gems in there. You just gotta sift through the crap and figure out which ones work best for ya.
That, IMO, is reason enough to say that using Warez is inexcusable.
Can't afford Sonar or Cubase (never mind a TDM system)?
Fine. Spend $40 on [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.fasoft.c…"]nTracks[/]="http://www.fasoft.c…"]nTracks[/], a solid DAW for the bucks that supports both VST and VSTi spec. Go download a couple hundred or so of those free FX from the site I referenced.
Blammo. You've got your project studio until you can afford better.
No excuse for warez.
Hey, who ever said it wasn't expensive to get into this thing we
Hey, who ever said it wasn't expensive to get into this thing we call "The Music Industry" ? I remember the cost of all the analog gear and it's up keep back in the 70"s. It was expensive!! I see a lot more "project" studios poping up then ever before, and because of what's available out there now, including the amount of cracks out there on the software side. But reallly, no matter if it's native or TDM, it still takes a sizable investment to get into. Just so much more available, and yes, you have to do your homework and choose what's right and what's going to work for you.
As for old analog gear becoming obsolete, I think not! Not here anyways....those are my gems baby.
Anyways, where is all the great music?
"Strong hope is a much greater stimulant of life than any single realized joy could be."
:c:
My apologies. The link above hasn't been updated in some time, s
My apologies. The link above hasn't been updated in some time, so a lot of the software companies it points to are no longer "on the net".
Here's one that gets updated constantly.
http://www.kvr-vst.com/get.php
Still no excuse for cracked software.
I think that using CRACKED software is the same as shoplifting.
I think that using CRACKED software is the same as shoplifting.
If I want some plug in that costs too much then I will either find some other way of doing what the plug in does or spend the cash to get the plugin I need Lots of software manufactures go out of their way to make their products available on the net for unlimited uses within a given time frame and if you really need one plugin you can always go on the net and down load one of these plugins. Some people even supply "freeware" so you don't have to spend any money at all. As to the "I am only 16 and can't afford the software" EARN IT/work for it like everyone else does. There are lots of jobs including Mickey McDs and lawn mowing that you can do to earn money. You don't have to have the best to start out with and their are lots of plugins that are available on the net for free that you could use until you can afford a better one. If companies such as Steinberg and Sony (Sound Forge) go out of business due to pirated software then the rest of us who paid the money for the resource will be out of luck and no further upgrades will be available nor will tech support. It cost thousands of dollars to write a plugin commercially and the company has to recoup those expenses. They are not doing this only for the love of music but are business people with shareholders and a profit and loss sheet to work with. I agree some software is overpriced so I don't use it or if I do I have to charge my clients for the expense of having it. If you are doing this work that you need the pirated software for in your bedroom or basement and it is for yourself then you can do without until you get the money to be able to support your need(s). Sorry to be upset but using pirated software really is upsetting to me since I have a couple of friends in the software writing business and they have to eat just like everyone else.
Originally posted by sheet: Maybe I will come up with a subscri
Originally posted by sheet:
Maybe I will come up with a subscription service. Instead of people buying the software that they want, they will rent it.
Interestingly enough Samplitude offers a "Samp for Rent" payment system. You pay a monthly rate, get a timed licence and recieve any and all updates that occur during the rental period.
I am not currently a Samplitude user but have been considering it. The monthly payment seems like a great way to go (easier to claim as a business expense on taxes too). If more software companies got savvy about how people want to pay a lot of these issues would go away.
Besides, i would imagine that in the long run Samplitude (or Magix) would makes a lot MORE money as users would just get used to paying out the set amount every month rather than hemming and hawing about whether they want to pay for an upgrade or not.
greg
I think with the growth of the internet more and more software p
I think with the growth of the internet more and more software people will make their software available for a limited time period for a small rental fee.
What really concerns me is the model that I keep hearing about from Mr. Bill Gates where you would have to pay a "usage" tax on your computer OS every year to keep it working. I am NOT in favor of that model. This was scheduled to start with Windows XP but they only implemented part of it where you have to register it on line. They are not charging the usage tax but I understand that is the next thing.
Once you purchase a piece of software it should be yours to use. The only time you should have to pay for anything is if you want to upgrade it when a new version comes out.
I am not a fan of pirated software and I know the manufactures are trying all kinds of things to keep you from making copies of their software from burning holes in the CD to having to have it authorized by a dongle or by going on line each and every time you use it. I am not in favor of a lot of really weird "keyware" but I understand the frustration of the software developers. It would be nice if people would not pirate software but I guess that is asking too much. It seems to me that no matter what scheme they seem to devise to stop pirating someone somewhere is already a step ahead of them.
MTCW
Originally posted by Thomas W. Bethel: What really concerns me
Originally posted by Thomas W. Bethel:
What really concerns me is the model that I keep hearing about from Mr. Bill Gates where you would have to pay a "usage" tax on your computer OS every year to keep it working. I am NOT in favor of that model. This was scheduled to start with Windows XP but they only implemented part of it where you have to register it on line. They are not charging the usage tax but I understand that is the next thing.
well if this tax is in addition to the purchase price (sorry... the licencing price) then mr gates thinks rather too highly of his operating system. Talk about begging people to jump over to apple!
"well let's see here... that microphone will cost you $1000 to purchase today and then you have to come back every year and give me $100 or the mic will stop working. You see... the mic will still technically be mine... i am just licencing it's use to you."
no thanks.
greg
The way I have heard it is that it would be IN ADDITION to the p
The way I have heard it is that it would be IN ADDITION to the purchase price and would be a yearly expense to keep using the OS. It will be interesting to see what comes next after XP and whether this is something that will be implemented.
I really don't think too many people will be happy if they have to pay up front and then yearly to use something.
-TOM-
Hmm. We have to come up with solutions to the theft though. Unt
Hmm. We have to come up with solutions to the theft though. Until people can be trusted I don't know what the model is. Certainly the model of the industrial age where you can buy a product you can touch, hold and possess no longer can be the model. Intellectual property needs to find a different model.
I don't use pirated software. Several years ago there were a few, non-audio applications on my computer. No longer. I recently bought a new computer. I've had to contact the manufacturers and developers for licensing permission to transfer the software to another computer when in question. So far, three computers installed, all have been amenable.
I'm sure piracy is the reason that many of the TDM plugin manufa
I'm sure piracy is the reason that many of the TDM plugin manufacturers don't make vst or direct x versions of their plugins.
If people actually payed for software, the users on less expensive recording platforms might have more options. (Where is the Access Virus VSTi? Sony EQ? )