...and the ORIGINAL question was...

>>can anyone recommend either individual AD and DA converters that are of the big names (lynx, mytek, lucid, lavry, genex, DAD, DCS, prism, benchmark) that are of 192kHz and somewhat cheaper price range (not 3 grand a piece.) either that or mainly can someone tell me an A/D/A converter that is one of those brands and can do simultaneous A/D and D/A conversion???

The question has been answered several times already. The idea behind the question is the matter at hand. Namely recording to tape then converting to digital. Which I think has pretty well been covered as well. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be enough and further redundant questions keep popping up. Yes REDUNDANT. That is, it's no use asking what one person uses if you've already made your mind up. Not to mention each person will make use of the tools at hand.

All of the converters mentioned in the original post are "Pro" quality and so in comparison to any prosumer product they will likely exceed what most people are accustomed to. Are they necessary? Well that's been answered a few times two.

I think it's time to just let the damn horse die. Kicking it isn't helping anyone. Just pick your ride and tell us how it works out. Will it be "the best"? Who knows? Who cares? It's not a competition. Will it sound good? That's in your hands.

look i'm not denying that MOTU isn't bad. but i would just like a bit more explination than, " because i would rather spend my hard earned money on something else before it in my studio." i'm not so sure if it will exceed what i have in my M-audio projectmix, do you think it will???? and on what basis do you think/ know it will exceed it???? is it simply because of the 192kHz sampling or more because of the design itself, or both?

then i've asked numerous times (without the object of money being thrown into the mix) what you think of the comparison between a mytek, lavry, and something like a MOTU or M-audio. if you are possibly only bringing money into the equation because you thoroughly believe in lavry's concepts or because you think the only reason those outboard converters have been established is for marketing purposes, then just say that. but i really don't think that's how you feel about them. so despite anything else WHAT is that comparison, sound on sound?????
so maybe youve answered this but its getting blurred with BS, so you think those lavrys and myteks no doubt exceed the MOTU?, but not quite no doubt because you keep mentioning monitors and this and that. i mean for gods sake if the piece of equipment is better then its better. just make the comparison without using lines along necessity. what is necessary in a studio is VASTLY different for everyone.

so maybe you could just answer those questions real directly and honestly, and don't tell me i'm putting all my eggs in one basket, or i'm using ideas of relation to a multi-million dollar studio. i mean do you really think a $1400 dollar converter (UNDER ALL THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES) is only a characteristic of a big wallet? if it's going to really be something to add to the sound then please don't bring $$$ into this.

and please, if you don't know jack shit about conversion, please don't feel the need to respond.

i just feel the need to remind you i'm not talking about what is simply fine, or will do. if that were the case, i'd have everything i need in a given interface and good software wouldn't i. yes i care about money, but i don't feel the need to bring it to the forefront of this. i mean just come out and say it (under all the right circumstances) if you think a MOTU will be as good as a mytek. then i'd just be inclined to ask you why. then basically i'd just assume that MOTU is of the same caliber to my built in m-audio conversion. then it would go on to suggest that you think my built in conversion is fine. and hell, i KNOW that its fine. the preamps are fine too, and so are the bombfactory plugins. its just all under the context of getting a gibson, when a cheaper guitar could suffice, or getting a 414 when a 57 would do. or for a parallel relationship a KSM27.

i just want a basis for what is considered professional for a REASON. all the things i've referred to are just no doubt when you hear them much better than what opposes them. and are there many good items in the product line, definently. so just come out and tell me if you don't think a mytek serves that same relationship to a good guitar, good amp, good mic, etc.

i don't already have my mind made up, otherwise i wouldn't continue to ask you these questions.

these are question for those who have used heavy duty converters in contrast to built in or cheaper converters. this is somewhat but not entirely an is X or Y better ordeal. realization that both may be good. i have no choice but to question why you dont feel like the top of the line converters are not what youd do with your money, is it because youd rather have other toys to play with, or is it because the quality isnt of a noticable difference (given circumstances)????

and i don't want to be redundant but i feel like i have to, yes the scenario of market techniques, vintage for vintages sake, tubes for tubes sake, no enhancement to your sound, top of the line being top of the line for no reason. so please if i am reading this wrong and THAT is the case. just say so. cause thats in all honesty how you are sounding.

I think it's quite clear that there is no comparison between the MOTU/ M-Audio stuff and the Lavry/Mytek etc. The question is really quite Ludicrous. You're comparing a interface/A-D and D-A converter in one with a dedicated high end A-D converter. That IS apples to oranges. Totally different machines.

ok so then what was the reason for the MOTU recommendation then, is it because you posess a realization that mytek is superior, but can you hear it as much as you like, or what? lets leave wanting one toy over the other out of this. so theres no comparison in the two references...whats the difference then between the two in terms of how they sound? hueseph i dont mean to be offending but have you seriously ever worked with either of the converters we are talking about, because i havent.

liquid, may I ask what your first name is and how old you are?

Well, you know I didn't recomend MOTU. You have a Projectmix 24 I/O. What's wrong with that? Have I used a Mytek? Not that I know of. The last time I was in a truly pro studio, Sony 1" digital 24 tracks were still a standard. That in conjunction with a digital SSL console was "good enough". However we are talking about 10 years now.

As regards MOTU, well yes, a friend of mine whom I've known since highschool has a MOTU/Nuendo system. I can tell you that I have heard some great recordings from that setup. Definitely cleaner than a lot of commercial recordings that I've heard. That's not to say that MOTU interfaces are superior to other products. It's in the ears of the engineer.

If you cannot make a good or excellent recording with what gear you have, stop! Right. Stop right now and spend your money at a studio that will help you to produce the quality that you desire. All this fussing with getting more and "better" gear will not improve your work. With the gear you have, you should have albums of material already that is not "up to snuff" but as good as you can get with what you have. Why is this material so inferior?

hueseph wrote: You remind me of Walters.

As annoying and persistant, but not near as funny...... :roll:

I would not be surprised if this guy lives under a bridge.

At this point, no one is gonna give a rats ass whether you can hear the difference in coverters or not. Since I havent answered this question yet I can say without a doubt and with PLENTY of experience that Yes, I can hear the difference in converters , given a particular set of recording environment qualities.

Can YOU hear this difference? I doubt it. Since you completely fail to acknowledge the REASONS stated in REAL TECHNICAL TERMS for the ability to hear a difference in the first place.

BTW. Read the S/N ratio specs on all the units in question.....there might be a hint in there somewhere since you dont want to hear from personal experience.

Whether you believe it or not, the ENVIRONMENT the recording is being captured in has much more to do with the result than almost any other piece in the CHAIN.....READ: CHAIN. More than one thing affecting the other things.....duh.

And since you dont seem to WANT to acknowledge the REAL importance of this, it leads me to think you're an IDIOT. Perhaps you've never actually turned on the gear you have...........................

Yeah....Walters and JP were funnier.....

Look at your statements, if you don't crave what you call "flame-wars" then why on God's earth do you keep bringing up these legendary "flamers" that you seem to love so damn much? This is just plain ridiculous.

Noise specs aren't everything, although I sometimes and whenever I can try to take them seriously. DAVEDOG, when you hear the pristine difference among your almighty ears, what is it exactly that you characterize the sound in effect caused by the superb conversion that is taking place? Give me your psycho-acoustic analysis on the matter, if you so do please.

What I hear and what another might hear will be totally different. If you werent such a self-serving prick I might be inclined to engage in a friendly dissertation with you but at this point it would seem moot and useless since what I hear has little to do with what you hear....these are two different things. And you didnt ask nicely.

ok...STOP. I don't mean you liquidstudio by all means, continue. I'm talking to everyone else. Just stop. He doesn't get it. Doesn't want to get it. And after 4 pages, he's never going to get it.

>>I would not be surprised if this guy lives under a bridge.

I doubt it. He sounds like a teenager with too much time on his hands...

no i'm actually in my late twenties but that is beside the point. anyways, i would have little to no problem, which would be even more compounded from the problem i have now with the answers i am getting, which is almost non-existant. although inescapable in your eyes. i just want to know what other than good design makes a converter far better than the rest? i ask this because you folks don't seem to think it has much to do with 192kHz sampling. However does this mean that you think the only thing that seems to make a converter better is the temperment of your room?

i like the discussion, the dialect, the socratic seminar so to speak, and what does this mean that you fine folks enjoy? don't answer that, i don't care.

What would be some characteristics of a good sounding converter effecting your music as opposed to a worse sounding converter?

and i reiterate the other question(s): what other than a good design makes a converter better than the rest?

And let me get one last thing straight; when a converter is characteristically "better," the only way you can percieve and sense this overall BETTER-ness is by having a well tempered room?

other than the cliche element; is it wrong to assume that built-in conversion on an interface is going to be about equally as good as its built-in preamps? (yes, yes i understand that sometimes it depends)

i'm just trying to conlcude upon the points you guys have made. because they definently are not bad ones.

please try to refrain from excess BS about what you think about me. i really don't care, so please just save it. you've said what you have to say. so can we please just talk technicality or can you at least just conclude on the points i have brought to the table here and summarized from your previous discussion.