I ended up going with this adjustable one

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/AudioTechnica-AT8202-Adjustable-Inline-Attenuator?sku=275064

"Sorry I don't know what else to do with such a long link."

Choose:

Tinyurl.com
Bit.ly
Tiny.cc
(any other "URL shortening service" and there are plenty).

You get a 20 character link which doesn't break on new lines.

Thanks Codemonkey.

I'll bookmark that for future use.

The long links always work for me, but I know it's an issue for some. Seems like the reader could always copy & paste, but I guess we're trying to make this easy.

Thanks again.

True. I have a plugin for Firefox which takes any text and makes it a URL, prepending http://www. if necessary so even things like yahoo.com are easy for me to open.
Like DAWs and computer programming, it's all about workflow.

I reckon 80% of the usage is on things like Twitter.com and on smartphones where characters are in short supply.

I went to a decent sized concert Monday night, and since it was general admission, I decided to sit directly behind and slightly above the sound booth, haha. Thought I'd check it out and keep an eye on him, and by that I mean watch and learn! Of course, they did sound check much earlier in the day so I didnt get to see that. But, it seemed like, they basically had all of the faders set to zero, and made bigger adjustments with the gain, smaller with the fader. I was suprised to see the gains on most channels only around 20%, which is where mine typically are as well when I run sound. I always thought it was a bit low, but thats where they typically need to be to set my faders at zero. Seeing them run the 56ch Midas was kind of cool though, so I had a good time watching them.

The reasoning behind the gain adjustment may be that a massive level change occured. For example, a musician decides to do what musicians do, and rather than admit to the monitor engineer that their monitor is too loud, they adjust their own volume, screwing with the house engineer as well.

Musicians and volume controls are like nitroglycerin and lit matches. Except it's the sound guy's temper that goes boom.

The Glasgow Royal Concert Hall, I was in it once. From what I recall, they have a 32/48 channel Midas and about 20U of rackmount EQ/tape decks/etc. and that's just for FoH.

Another thing they had in their rack that I thought was kind of cool was the TC Electronic D-Two Multi-Tap Delay. Although Im not sure I can justify the $500 price tag.

Ok, so that Adjustable Attenuator works great. Problem solved.

Although tonight during an acoustic gig, I found that about half of my inputs needed ZERO gain in order to be set at 0 on the fader....?

Also, just ordered more goodies, the main thing being a pair of Yamaha BR15m monitors to add to my pair of BR12m monitors. Just wish I had an extra Aux on my Yamaha MG166cx mixer so that I can have 3 seperate mixes for this band I run sound for often. They have an IEM I use on Aux 2, and I always run my BR12 monitors on Aux 1. I think I'd almost rather my Effects channel to be an Aux 3. Guess I'll have to upgrade to the 20ch since it has 4 Auxs.

Next on the list is another Yamaha SW118v sub and an 8'x8' Easy Up Canopy for the outside gigs.

Oh, and Dave, I should have spent the extra $20 on the other snake with the quick connect.....It sucks wrapping the snake up while attatched to the box!!

Thats all for updates right now....humor me... :lol:

stealthy if those are line level inputs (from 1/4" jacks on keyboards, guitar amps etc.) then that makes sense.

Mics? Well that's just coincidence.

"I think I'd almost rather my Effects channel to be an Aux 3"
Our board has 2 efx buses. I can use the direct outs but monitoring can only be done post-FX. One is used for the deaf-people-loop.

No, they werent line levels, they were mics....

My board only has one effects bus :( I think?

*EDIT* The specs on my board say "AUX buses: 3, including 1x Effect send" :?:

That'll be 1 effect bus then.

How about, I take my spare one out and send it to you?

Please and thanks

What all are you routing into the IEM mix?

i think mostly just her vocals and other 2 back up vocals. maybe a little guitar

anyone?

Sorry, just busy doing the voodoo that I do do.

I haven't been able to think of a practical workaround for your Aux shortage.

A dedicated monitor mixer is always a plus for a rental company, but a monitor mixer with splitters will cost a lot more than upgrading to a new FOH mixer with 6 auxes and/or a matrix mix or two.

Ok, concerning my lack of Auxs.....Next week I will get to use my new pair of monitors in addition to my old pair. As I mentioned, I will also be running and IEM from Aux 2. Normally for my one pair of monitors, I go from Aux 1, to one channel on my amp, and then run the 2 monitors on that channel. I'm ok with having the same mix in all 4 monitors now, and leaving the IEM with the different mix.....but, how can I do this since I need TWO amp channels to power the 4 monitors? Am I making sense?

Run the amp in parallel mode. 1 input, 2 identical channels out.

It's an XLS amp right? If it is, they only have dual (stereo) and mono bridge mode. And the XLS only has 2 XLR inputs, no TRS to use as 'thru'

So you're going to need some form of XLR splitter. passive, transformer, active - whatever.

If there's an EQ in the rack, they often have both XLR and TRS outputs, in which case you can send a return down the snake from both outputs of the EQ. Although then there's the obvious issue of needing a TRS to XLR Male cable to get into the snake from the EQ's TRS output. I know you got a snake with 8 returns, so you've got plenty of return channels.

What exactly comes out of the "Monitor" outputs? Do they mirror the L/R Mains?

No EQ.....I dont know what you mean by splitter.....

What comes out of the monitor outputs? Um...its a separate mix for each of the 2 aux's....is that what you mean?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SplitPro

stealthy wrote: No EQ.....I dont know what you mean by splitter.....

What comes out of the monitor outputs? Um...its a separate mix for each of the 2 aux's....is that what you mean?

Thanks Capt. Obvious! :)
Yep, I know you're feeding your stage monitors from Aux 1 and Aux 2 sends.
Also, on a slight tangent, I assume you're using the in-board effects on your mixer to some extent - which would prevent you from using the "Effect" output for a 3rd post fader/EQ monitor.

Your mixer also has these 2 "Monitor Outs", which I assume are just a mirror of the Mains that also let you listen to the PFL to "solo" something - just like the Phones Out. I might be assuming wrong here, so I was wondering if you had any options of what signal went to these outs. And if using them would help with your limited out situation.

So I can use that MIC splitter for this application?

Yes, I am using the on board effects, mostly just reverb for vocals.

I am looking at the online manual and all it seems to say about that L/R Monitor Outs is:
MONITOR OUT jacks
These are impedance-balanced* TRS phone-type output
jacks.
The signal output by these jacks is determined by the
MONITOR switch, the 2TR IN switch, and the PFL
switches on the input channels.

What do you think....just go with that splitter I was linked to for $50?

Wire is just wire until you plug it in at it's destination. You may need a TRS->XLR cable/adapter to go with it but it will work. Mic is just a label.

I have full rackmount passive splitters left from my PA days in a nice comfy case at home, but I always have a couple of these single channel splitters in my traveling box o' schween along with an assortment of adapters for those "Oh @#$%" moments and the paycheck is on the line. I haven't used most of it in years but old habits die hard.

Ok great, I will go with that. But could you please paint a picture for me as to how this will hook up so that I can get the correct cable if needed...very much appreciated...

Normally, I will use a TRS to XLR male cable to go from the Aux (TRS) to the input on the amp. Then Speakon (amp output) to the monitor.

Same thing. TRS to XLR into the mic input. Output of the splitter (XLR) into one side of the amp and the other output of the splitter (XLR) into the other side of the amp. Speakons still go from the amp to the monitors in two different chains.

Thanks, looks like I just need to get 2 XLR(m)-XLR(F) cables to go from the splitter to the amp inputs.

I am however interested to know in what situations you use these for other reason....I mean, when do you need them for something else?

My audio biz these days is mostly remote location classical recording. I don't want to monkey around like I used to with PA gear for several reasons- 1)not enough gigs for a real pa engineer in my half of the state 2)no road crew to help with the liftin' and loadin' 3)don't want to pay the insurance. As such when I get a call to record for a show or live gig they have their own board and gear and I take a split from the FOH either with his splitters or preferably mine. That might be anything from 2 to 24 channels (48 if I want to get out a second HD24 but I haven't since I was in Cali).

As to the little single line guys, they are handy for any number of line patching scenarios such as yours. Lets say you have a cable go bad or some kid stuck a pin into your main snake (true story). Q: How many mic cables do you need for a gig? A: One more than you have. Now, how do you get through the gig when Guitar Center is closed and your shop is two or three hours distance one way?

Your box o' emergency schween. I spent my first several months as Sound Chief at MBSD with a soldering iron and a reel of cable and a box of connectors. I came up with converters for every scenario I could think of for my equipment-phono, phone, xlr, TT, Phoenix, dsub, Elko, whatever. I zip tied them together in pairs and made sure I could convert both directions if needed. It saved me an a@# chewing from the Band Officer on several occasions.

I don't concern myself with labels like mic or line unless it's a level issue. Even then, you can take a DI box and convert a guitar to a balanced XLR for a long cable run and then go backward through a DI box and plug into your HiZ input too.

It's all about being flexible and having the creative thinking to get the signal from point A to point B no matter what is in the middle. In a perfect world there aren't any couplers or adapters or other schween in the middle, but the road isn't a perfect world. There are always potholes.

Good point....Got it ordered, and a few extra cables, I figure its always good to have extra cables!

Wow, received my order in 2 days. Just in time to try it out tonight at a gig

Worked perfectly for what I needed!

You should be good to go! .... and home by 3am to post the results ... attaboy!

Splitters are great tool to have at your disposal. I've successfully used splitters in a wide variety of applications, the only short-coming I've found is that if you're using a splitter intended for mic levels and you push a highly amplified +24 signal through it - you may hear some audible artifacts as the transformer works outside of it's comfort zone. It's usually just a little saturation of the signal, and that's not always a bad thing sonically. I just wonder how long the transformer can run at that level before it gets too warm and fails.

100% agree with (and adhere to) JackAttack's Boy Scout approach. I always have basic tools, DeOxit, a meter, an efficient assortment of spares cables, adaptors, and interfaces that I can MacGyver my way out of just about anything that might come up in a minute or less. You don't have to carry them in every night, but it's nice knowing they're in the truck if you need them.

For live PA jobs, you should always have at least one spare mic cable, speaker cable, electrical exension cord, and a spare IEC power cable - you know those ones that detach from the unit. (they can come up missing).

It really gets interesting when you start running 220v for lights and/or sound. The variety of 220v plugs that exist out there in the world is ridiculous, and you need to be able to safely plug into whatever they've got....

The one thing I never understood is why no matter what length cable I buy it is always 6" too short! LOL

Good points Dave. But, what is DeOxit?

I would like to eventually get some basic lights, but for the time being, I have some other PA stuff Id rather get first!

Two questions...one of the bands I work with once or twice a month is a rock/classic rock band with a female lead singer. She uses a beta 58a. How could I EQ it to make it a little more clear? It always seems to be somewhat muddy and sometimes a bit distorted? Same with the bass players sm58 but I think that may be more his technique...

And, do you prefer using a mic or direct box on guitar amps and bass amps? I've been running them direct and it seems to work out fine, but was just wondering about the alternative.

Caig Laboratories' DeOxit is contact cleaner that works great on dirty contacts.

Fader lube (F5) by Caig Labs is good too....

oh ok

Hi BJ,

I see you've been helped on the DeOxit question, but nobody wanted to tackle the rest of your question.

stealthy wrote: Two questions...one of the bands I work with once or twice a month is a rock/classic rock band with a female lead singer. She uses a beta 58a. How could I EQ it to make it a little more clear? It always seems to be somewhat muddy and sometimes a bit distorted? Same with the bass players sm58 but I think that may be more his technique....

Nobody will be able to say cut this specific frequency, or boost that frequency without hearing the vocalists Not only will it vary from person to person, it may vary from song to song, it may vary venue to venue.
But generally there will be a mid freq. that you can scoop out to clear up the vocals. I wish I could tell you freq. number, but I can't.

Your mixer has sweepable mids, you'll have to sweep until you hear what you're looking for.

ALSO: knowing that you don't have an EQ in your system yet, I can't be sure that maybe it isn't a matter of something that could / should be dealt with globally with an EQ on your mains. Or it might be the size and shape of the room and an abundance of monitors muddying things up. Or just plain pumping more volume out of your fullrange cabinets than they can deliver cleanly. And as you say, maybe some of it is singing technique.

There are some variables, and it could be a combination of any of them.

stealthy wrote: And, do you prefer using a mic or direct box on guitar amps and bass amps? I've been running them direct and it seems to work out fine, but was just wondering about the alternative.

You could start a new thread on this and get some good input from the rest of the live sound guys.

For me it depends on how good the bass amp sounds on-stage. If it's a great sounding live bass rig, I might do both the DI and a good mic. And I'd mix them at the board to favor the mic. The mic should have more warmth and body, while the DI will give you a cleaner, tighter, brighter sound with more of the attack (especially if they play with a pick). If it's a mediocre to bad bass rig, I'd almost always just run the DI.

I hope that is of some use to you. Good luck and keep us posted.

I replied to this earlier but for some reason didnt post. I'll play with the EQ to see what works. And, I see you saw my new thread concerning the DI/Mic topic!

Just picked up a Gator G-Tour M15 15 Mic/accessory case, and love it!