in the beginning, Bill Putnam created the echo chamber. and it was good. and Bill Putnam said, let there be pre delay before the echo so he ran the echo send through an Ampex @ 7 1/2 ips. and the echo was even better. and that was it. nothing else. so you think you know better than Bill?

this is all the nonsense that has come from using DAWs. until computer mixing came along most of us only had a couple of reverbs or echo units and perhaps a chamber and a delay or if we had some bank, an Eventide. smearing from too many different reverbs just wasn't a problem. i guess this is what happens when people get everything they want and more. really less is better.

i usually dedicated the auxes on a console to the same things in all situations. aux one is the main reverb, aux 2 is sent to a delay, aux 3 is a chorus or flanger and 4 was to something psychedelic like an Eventide 3000 . and that was it. if you are using more than that, imo your pissin' into the wind.

Kurt Foster, post: 457933, member: 7836 wrote: in the beginning, Bill Putnam created the echo chamber. and it was good. and Bill Putnam said, let there be pre delay before the echo so he ran the echo send through an Ampex @ 7 1/2 ips. and the echo was even better. and that was it. nothing else. so you think you know better than Bill?

nope. i sure dont.

audiokid, post: 457919, member: 1 wrote: Fixing phase issues in pieced together mixes in not fun but you can really tighten a swirly mix up if you know how to dial the performance tracks to overdubs, clean up the room refection, even replace reverbs with a common space ( bricasti oh yeah). Make small mixes sound more real and open.

Chris, having experienced a quick demo you did for me years back, where you tightened up a bit of a recording i did live in a basement on a 4track (tascam 34), could you maybe outline some of your methods for this? lol the braicasti is fairly obvious (sounding amazing) and self explanitory, but anything else worth noting as far as it goes? im partculary interested in how you "clean up the room reflection", and replace the reverbs (how do you un-reverb a track?), and any pointers you may have for dialing the performance tracks to the over dubs?

i wasn't directing that at you Kyle. lol. it was meant in general ..........

a quick addage about the UR-RT22/44. i think im ordering the RT22 this week(end).

• its 'affordable' ($350) and new enough that resale shouldn't be much of a loss if i dont like it
• its got built in dsp - perfect for my budget laptop and tablet, even better the DSP Effects have a VST3 version included, for use within the daw.
• its actually got a midi jack! (for my yet to be ordered SR-16 drum machine) which i had and sold.
• the X-formers are switchable
• its got (up to) 4 line ins 2 on the front combi jacks w/ switchable Xformers, 2 on the back
• it should pair very nicely with my new Eleven Rack Unit, allowing comparison tests between Xformer and non Xformer ins,
• possibly add some depth and excitement to the eleven. (ala' KF's line into the xformer patchbay trick) Thanks dude, already stealing your methods
• it include Cubase Ai for computers, and Cubasis Le for ios. (cubase is nearly last Major Daw i need to compatible with random client sessions) so i dont have to necessarily have them bounce, label, and upload the raw audio, and then sort out all the usual errors involved- stereo tracks that should be mono, uncommon names for tracks, effects left on, ect ect. i want to be able to just open up the session, if for nothing else, to see whats going on.
• its got a loopback function for streaming.

class="xf-ul">
I hope- its pre amps gain (and xformers) are controllable via a software interface (ie remote) like my focusrtie scarlett solo. I also hope it functions standalone or can feed directly thru the outputs so i can use it as a front end device (di box, saturation stage for stereo tracks) for fun experimenting, and ulititarian.

i wish- it had a more robust PSU than a 12v DC wall wart. although that makes it easy enough to power by battery, a plus, it also makes me think its got limited headroom, and the xformers may be sublte, not overdrive well, and/or be a gimmick.

either way, its as cool as any of the other units in the price range, as far as i can tell. i was originally aiming at a yamaha AG06 compact 6x2 mixer, which only records 2 tracks/stereo (sums the inputs), because it had an amp sim, and loopback. Hopefully, this concludes my budget interfacing as i get my archiving done, and connect the basic protoype master/slave/NAS remote rig ive been piecing together these last couple years. While i continue due dilligence for a premium converter, summing, computer(s), for the 'real thing'.

a couple of interesting videos on the unit. the first ones peeks inside it. plenty of surface mount to throw away in five years. lol Kurt.

kmetal, post: 457935, member: 37533 wrote: Chris, having experienced a quick demo you did for me years back, where you tightened up a bit of a recording i did live in a basement on a 4track (tascam 34), could you maybe outline some of your methods for this? lol the braicasti is fairly obvious (sounding amazing) and self explanitory, but anything else worth noting as far as it goes? im partculary interested in how you "clean up the room reflection", and replace the reverbs (how do you un-reverb a track?), and any pointers you may have for dialing the performance tracks to the over dubs?

Thanks

I don’t exactly remember what I did but in general, I do the same things with every mix I work on. Just some take more time than others.
Basically I do what I described s few posts back.

First I listened to a mix and quickly decide what are the strongest tracks, then I go through each track listening for what sounds wrong and start the process of elimination.
I look for good sections of drums and hats and will ysev those (like samples) to replace bad parts .

I spend time lining up tracks
I mono tracks against others and Dial them all in,
As I do this the mix gets fatter and tighter.

It’s a lot to explain.

The best way I could explain would be to do a mix and explain what I did to it specifically.

Oh, this as well.

I usually find a reverb that emulates the one the band used or better and will put it in stereo at the end of a mix .

In a nut shell... this is what I do.

Typos fixed above. Damn mobile auto correct

Some mixes, I hardy need to do much. It all depends but a Bricasti at the end of any mix is always special.
If I recall your mix, was it complete 2mix or individual tracks you gave me?

audiokid, post: 457938, member: 1 wrote: Thanks

I don’t exactly remember what I did but in general, I do the same things with every mix I work on. Just some take more time than others.
Basically I do what I described s few posts back.

First I listened to a mix and quickly decide what are the strongest tracks, then I go through each track listening for what sounds wrong and start the process of elimination.
I look for good sections of drums and hats and will you those to replace bad parts .

I spend time lining up tracks
I mono tracks against others and Dial them all in sobthebiver all mix gets fatter and tighter.

It’s a lot to explain.

The best way I could explain would be to do a mix and explain what I did to it specifically.

Oh, this as well.

I usually find a reverb that emulates the one the band used or better and will put it in stereo at the end of a mix .

In a nut shell... this is what I do.

cool man. Im noticing MONO creeping up alot in this conversation. i think its arguably the most underutilized (widely available) tool out there to engineers. personally, it wasnt until i had a mono button on the console (mackie d8b) that i really understood the power of it. Would you consider drum replacement/augmentation with samples as a standard part of your workflow?

at some point it would be great to have an audioblog/podcast, or even better, a video of your process. you have an interesting workflow and setup, that produces good results, it would be great to be able to visualize it better. particularity how you incorporate your bricasti and summing, which i know you've described a thousands times. it seems to be difficult to fully grasp in text.

also- off topic- how come it always take 6 months for your LA-2 compressors? do you custom order them or something?

audiokid, post: 457940, member: 1 wrote: Some mixes, I hardy need to do much. It all depends but a Bricasti at the end of any mix is always special.
If I recall your mix, was it complete 2mix or individual tracks you gave me?

i gave you the 4 tracks. i actually came across them (the ones you did) not too long ago, when i was fishing thru my old dropboxes and files. id have to dig them up (again) but it might be worth posting. i was really astounded at the immediate quality, which you attributed to the bricasti, and editing, although i would guess the high end conversion and summing may have come into play. this was around 2013-ish.

i remember being surprised that you'd used a single stereo reverb for an entire mix. something i hadn't done previous to that.

kmetal, post: 457941, member: 37533 wrote: Im noticing MONO creeping up alot in this conversation. i think its arguably the most underutilized (widely available) tool out there to engineers.

indeed. mono is super useful

kmetal, post: 457941, member: 37533 wrote: Would you consider drum replacement/augmentation with samples as a standard part of your workflow?

yes.

kmetal, post: 457941, member: 37533 wrote: at some point it would be great to have an audioblog/podcast, or even better, a video of your process. you have an interesting workflow and setup, that produces good results, it would be great to be able to visualize it better. particularity how you incorporate your bricasti and summing, which i know you've described a thousands times. it seems to be difficult to fully grasp in text.

:), I'm not sure I deserve to be highlighted but thank you. I'm always happy to share what I do with others. Explaining the 2 DAW approach and what I listen for in a mix is really impossible to explain, especially for me. A wordsmith I am not .

kmetal, post: 457941, member: 37533 wrote: also- off topic- how come it always take 6 months for your LA-2 compressors? do you custom order them or something?

They say they only can make one unit a day and that's how far behind they are. Either I'm not that important or they need help making them.

kmetal, post: 457942, member: 37533 wrote: id have to dig them up (again) but it might be worth posting.

sure, that would be fun! Do you have the before after? Its paramount to have both otherwise there is nothing to compare.

kmetal, post: 457942, member: 37533 wrote: i was really astounded at the immediate quality,

Thanks. :)

audiokid, post: 457948, member: 1 wrote: sure, that would be fun! Do you have the before after? Its paramount to have both otherwise there is nothing to compare.

as far as i know, i have before, after, and the individual tracks. ill put it on my to do list. I think they were all .WAV files, so ill have to convert them to mp3. maybe ill try out the Sonnox Fraunhoffer plug/converter, since i haven't used it yet, and finally got an ilok2.

audiokid, post: 457948, member: 1 wrote: They say they only can make one unit a day and that's how far behind they are. Either I'm not that important or they need help making them.

must be nice to have over a 1/4 million $ worth of back orders. UA is doing something right on all three fronts. Analog hardware, digital interfacing, pluggins.

kmetal, post: 457937, member: 37533 wrote: a quick addage about the UR-RT22/44. i think im ordering the RT22 this week(end).

• its 'affordable' ($350) and new enough that resale shouldn't be much of a loss if i dont like it
• its got built in dsp - perfect for my budget laptop and tablet, even better the DSP Effects have a VST3 version included, for use within the daw.
• its actually got a midi jack! (for my yet to be ordered SR-16 drum machine) which i had and sold.
• the X-formers are switchable
• its got (up to) 4 line ins 2 on the front combi jacks w/ switchable Xformers, 2 on the back
• it should pair very nicely with my new Eleven Rack Unit, allowing comparison tests between Xformer and non Xformer ins,
• possibly add some depth and excitement to the eleven. (ala' KF's line into the xformer patchbay trick) Thanks dude, already stealing your methods
• it include Cubase Ai for computers, and Cubasis Le for ios. (cubase is nearly last Major Daw i need to compatible with random client sessions) so i dont have to necessarily have them bounce, label, and upload the raw audio, and then sort out all the usual errors involved- stereo tracks that should be mono, uncommon names for tracks, effects left on, ect ect. i want to be able to just open up the session, if for nothing else, to see whats going on.
• its got a loopback function for streaming.

class="xf-ul">
I hope- its pre amps gain (and xformers) are controllable via a software interface (ie remote) like my focusrtie scarlett solo. I also hope it functions standalone or can feed directly thru the outputs so i can use it as a front end device (di box, saturation stage for stereo tracks) for fun experimenting, and ulititarian.

i wish- it had a more robust PSU than a 12v DC wall wart. although that makes it easy enough to power by battery, a plus, it also makes me think its got limited headroom, and the xformers may be sublte, not overdrive well, and/or be a gimmick.

either way, its as cool as any of the other units in the price range, as far as i can tell. i was originally aiming at a yamaha AG06 compact 6x2 mixer, which only records 2 tracks/stereo (sums the inputs), because it had an amp sim, and loopback. Hopefully, this concludes my budget interfacing as i get my archiving done, and connect the basic protoype master/slave/NAS remote rig ive been piecing together these last couple years. While i continue due dilligence for a premium converter, summing, computer(s), for the 'real thing'.

a couple of interesting videos on the unit. the first ones peeks inside it. plenty of surface mount to throw away in five years. lol Kurt.

YIKES!! i took a look at the specs and its stating 101db of dynamic range on the mic inputs, and 102db on the lines (a-weighted). Thats really poor, relative to my old m-audio fw1814 (106db) and my $85 scarelet solo (109db). the UA arrow (my other contender) boasts 118db on the mic/hi-Z inputs.

in the UR-RT22's defense, it has a 114db dynamic range on the outputs, very close to the arrows 115db, and beating the scarlet's. in my case im more interested in what im hearing than what im tracking for now, but still, that seems like a really poor performance stat. do the xformers somehow limit dynamic range? they dont list separate specs with them engaged. specs dont tell the whole story of the sound, but that seems oddly low for a current interface, especially given the competition ratings.

am i missing something? im not as sure as i was the other day that this is 'the one' to get for me in the budget category. to be fair the arrow does outperform all the competition in the price range (on paper)..

i'm sure a wall wart power supply doesn't help. :rolleyes:

Unless used, to all my research, any new Pre/ADC combo under $1000 is average to poor. Many would argue this but that's (no offense) likely because they are either unaware of what top end sounds like or they are comparing different colours of raisins and decide on the one that looks the coolest.

I never expect anything with a wall wort to be good but that doesn't mean their aren't excellent products using wall warts. And for the money, this does look pretty good. The Neve thing doesn't impress me at all though. You can change tones ITB instead of believing this is really going to get you a Neve . Just my humble thoughts.

Suggestion... I sold a few Lavry Blacks AD11 for under $1000 and they would blow most combos away. Lavry Blacks sound better than Prism and Prism converters are $2000 and up and sound great too. I've owned both the Atlas, Orpheus and Lavry pre and conversion sounds better to me. Bigger and smoother.

Maybe look for used combo's, Kyle.

Also, I've haven't been comparing the current crop of interfacing so I don't know how things have improved so based on my past experience depending on what type of tracking you are wanting a combo to do, the interface is just as important. As an example... both Prism and Lavry lack at low latency tracking. Meaning, they are good but not excellent for punch in production work. They are much better at tracking apposed to overdubbing and building tracks.
Antelope Audio and depending on what RME on the other hand (FW or MADI) are great for speed but not a nice in the Pre and smoothness on the ADC. USB2 interfacing .. I have a love hate going on there)

The trade off between those two (Antelope Audio and RME), are in the pre. Lavry pre's however are super smooth at both pre and ADC.

RME are nice on the ADC but nasty pre's. I have no idea what the pre's are like with Antelope but I doubt they are Lavry as well. I would put a Lavry pre as sounding closer to Millennia and RME sounding closer to Presonus.

Prism pres are close to Lavry but sound more clinical, great but not as smooth and blooming delightful as Lavry.

Seems to me, the best ADC have less channels. Must be something to do with power supply and op amps or whatever it is the keeps the ADC super stable and locked to the other ADC..

(edit to add this) I suspect an external wall wart may be a good reason to isolate noise as well.

Hope this helps.

first, there are decent wall warts and ones that aren't. actually the wall warts that are decent are really what is known as line lumps, like the ones that were on Rane gear. what makes an external power supply good or not is how powerful they are. mic pres need a lot of volts and a power supply that kicks out less than +/- 16 volts won't cut it. for an eq or other signal processors, it isn't such a big deal though hi volt rails are always desirable imo. but for mic pres or interfaces that have mic pres built in it's a must.

Thanks for clarifying that, Kurt. I did not know the actual name for those or the differences it made for preamps .

I have a few products with external PSU that are very impressive. Dangerous Music uses external power for their mastering gear and the Monitor controller as well as SPL. The Neos and Premium preamps both use external PSU that are huge.

those little wall warts with the tiny speaker cable are shit.

the Dangerous or the Neos would have rack mounted or half rack power supplies in metal cases, right? pretty standard for pro stuff.

a lot of gear that have line lumps are ok too if the lump provides plenty of volts and amps. it's all about Joules! external supplies keep manufacturing costs down, make for international compatibility and help keep the noise levels down by removing the supply from the chassis.

it's the dinky 9v supplies like the ones that the effemmmar, preblownup and stoogio projerks rack crap employ that are junk.

Kurt Foster, post: 457997, member: 7836 wrote: the Dangerous or the Neos would have rack mounted or half rack power supplies in metal cases, right? pretty standard for pro stuff.

No, both lay on the floor. SPL PSU are huge.

I think they like to have their PSU completely away from the gear and wiring.

between Kurts brilliant breakdown on phase vs polarity, and the priceless info based on experience with converters and PSU, this thread is a favorite of mine. Nothing like factual information pill to cure GAS. My interest in the Steinberg were more based on curiosity than necessity. it still seems cool, should the need arise for something like it.

One thing about the UA arrow, is its Bus Powered only. according to the manual the arrow consumes "no more' than 10W. TB3 power supply specs are a big increase to the specs of USB2/FW. Not that this is something im happy about, as TB3 requires a compatible (ie brand new)motherboard, even if you want to use a pcie add-on card which is $89-125, just for the card. The UA apollo portable versions TB2/USB reflect that much $ in price hike, and additional i/o, as well as an external PSU. It seems, your getting what you pay for, especially in the mid-to budget categories.

im starting to just lean towards something hi end/or truly professional, and just playing w the eleven rack as an interface, and incorporating the scarlett solo, for its drivers/192k capability for now. Between the used market, and some good potential options on the new market, im not seeing much disadvantage to waiting it out. Money = living efficiency + time in my current situation, so a couple of months of roughing it can step me into all but the elite level of adda.

With archiving my record/tape collection being the primary reason for 'needing' a high quality AD, and enjoyment the reason for the DA, i think i can bypass built in pre amps all together. which is where i wanted to be anyway. the eleven has a basic pre amp for tracking with a mic, and line outs that can send the clean di signal, and amp sim signal, separately from its 'main outs' to the speakers, and its other two outs to feed a power amplifier/guitar cab. Part of the reason i was so diligent with eh VSTi collection was knowing id be itb, and studio-less for a while as far as at home goes.

i really want to have high quality for this archiving (even tho the sources are old home/project studio recordings and home videos) simply because i want to not have to do it again for at least 20 years, and i dont want my nagging thoughts to feel like i compromised on the adda. i may just end up selling the unit after the project is done. The digital files part of the archive has been all about organization and accessibility so far, the analog part id like to be about high quality transfer.

as painful as it is, i may have to pay $200 for a (brand new) old m-audio fast-track because it has the unregistered copy of PT-M powered, which requires an m-audio device/driver to be connected, and would is what i used from 06-12'. id like to be able to just open the old sessions, and extract the audio that way, rather than fish thru hundreds of kik 1.2.4 clips and edits in the 'audio files' folder. i may even have to purchase windows xp again, and toss it on a cheapo ($30) ssd, to replicate the old OS drive. lol needless to say, never again. organization and proper backup is a part of my workflow now.

as it goes its nearly 1K for a professional level photo scanner, and im very close to hitting the buy button on that, but i want to verify its quality with a local photo shop, and see if its available used. it's probably overkill, but there's photos that are extremely sentimental, ect. basically the things that get done typically when a person/their parents, pass away, im doing now while we're still living, so we can enjoy the memories, at the highest practical quality i can afford. if there's not at least 5,000 pictures, there isnt a snigle one, in the stacks of photo albums around here. The scanner will be sold asap. i guess this is what happens when your an emotion driven artistic type with alot of time and no real other objectives, responsibility, or purpose currently. lol im the archivist i guess.

audiokid, post: 457993, member: 1 wrote: Suggestion... I sold a few Lavry Blacks AD11 for under $1000 and they would blow most combos away. Lavry Blacks sound better than Prism and Prism converters are $2000 and up and sound great too. I've owned both the Atlas, Orpheus and Lavry pre and conversion sounds better to me. Bigger and smoother.

Maybe look for used combo's, Kyle.

i actually have been opening up the possibility of used, especially since i may sell the unit when the projects done, and most definitely when i buy my house. plus, mytek hasn't dropped the new 8x192 version yet, and ignored my e-mail which asked them for any update they could give me on timing. the guy i spoke with initially said they were shooting for NOV/2016. lol. That unit is the closest to 'ideal for me' that ive been able to find, so far, and ive looked into just about everything i think. That will be my 'keeper' as it stands now.

audiokid, post: 457994, member: 1 wrote: Seems to me, the best ADC have less channels. Must be something to do with power supply and op amps or whatever it is the keeps the ADC super stable and locked to the other ADC..

ive never seen a high end unit with more than 8ch. barring the Burhl wich can do 32, since its both modular units, and has a separate rackmount PSU, which they kindly charge separately for :/

Kurt Foster, post: 457995, member: 7836 wrote: first, there are decent wall warts and ones that aren't. actually the wall warts that are decent are really what is known as line lumps, like the ones that were on Rane gear. what makes an external power supply good or not is how powerful they are. mic pres need a lot of volts and a power supply that kicks out less than +/- 16 volts won't cut it. for an eq or other signal processors, it isn't such a big deal though hi volt rails are always desirable imo. but for mic pres or interfaces that have mic pres built in it's a must.

didnt know this. i assumed line lumps and wall warts were pretty mjuch the same, and both sucked always. thanks for the enlightenment.

audiokid, post: 457996, member: 1 wrote: those little wall warts with the tiny speaker cable are $*^t.

especially when the jack yanks out on ya.!

audiokid, post: 457996, member: 1 wrote: The Neos and Premium preamps both use external PSU that are huge.

the trident 24 had a large PSU that sat on the floor, and a cable thicker than my thumb. and that console was the lowest model in the line, and didnt have transformer based pre's. the eq rocked tho.

man, this thing looks, cool. with 130db dynamic range ($2K) whats interesting about the mytek units is the offer both an AC (iec) plug for the power supply, and a jack for a 12v DC power supply as well. i wonder why.

https://mytekdigital.com/brooklyn-adc/

Here's a quote from their website.

"
External Power Supply Options
Mytek Liberty DAC (also Brooklyn DAC and ADC) is equipped with external 12VDC power supply input. There is some sound quality improvement (particularly deeper base and better soundstage) when a large external power supply is used. To have an effect the power supply has to be substantially (5-10 times) larger than the 30W internal power supply. Here are some option which have been used by ur customers. Mytek has not yet conducted testing of either of these.

"

so does, this for the DAC side. i dont think theres a higher spec'd DAC in the price range. this has a 120db dynamic range, and a $300 price tag. im very interested in this. they are currently sold out, with an eta of June 15th, lol. mytek is not very good with time frames.... i sent up for email notification when they become available.

https://clefmusic.com/

here's a screenshot of the comparison of the dacs from mytek.

The Liberty DAC seems to be a good 'compromise' between price and performance, with a 127db dynamic range, and a 1k price tag. the brooklyn adc + the liberty dac makes a really powerful adda combo.

kmetal, post: 458001, member: 37533 wrote: the trident 24 had a large PSU that sat on the floor, and a cable thicker than my thumb. and that console was the lowest model in the line, and didnt have transformer based pre's. the eq rocked tho.

the first big console i ever worked on was a Trident 65 (same as a 24 but with 8 subs) and i loved it! a real ah haa moment for me.

Kurt Foster, post: 458009, member: 7836 wrote: the first big console i ever worked on was a Trident 65 (same as a 24 but with 8 subs) and i loved it! a real ah haa moment for me.

yeah dude me too. i ran one of my stereo mixes through it and it was instantly bigger, and rounder. the difference between that eq, and the mackie/AH i was used to was night and day. unfortunately the PSU was giving us a ton of trouble, and there were a few odd problems, that the tech couldn't fix adequately, although charged us for. which sucks, because we had Dan Zellman modify the master bus, and a couple channels, for 6db more headroom, and we were gonna have all the module modded. For 10k, i still think its a great buy for anyone who does live tracking frequently. with all those punchy pre amps, eqs, and bussing section, it would be impossible or very difficult to match or beat going the outboard way. my personal preference, would be to up to the 75 and get the xformers in the pres, but without the high tag of the 80b.

techs will charge for hours regardless if it's fixable or not. nothing new about that. there's a company that makes new beefed up power supplies for LFC's called ATOMIC.

if i was still producing i would be looking for a 65 or a 24. they are probably one of the best priced real used consoles you can get and they sound so much better than the new ones.

Kurt Foster, post: 458012, member: 7836 wrote: techs will charge for hours regardless if it's fixable or not. nothing new about that.

i didnt know that, lol, i guess i picked the wrong profession. i usually ended up fixing mixes in my free time to stick within clients budgets. i think the first thing id do after purchasing a console is have a tech go thru the entire thing. the cool part was at least we could use the console while some of the modules were being modded, since it was modular. i never encountered gear maintenance until i got to the studios, even on the stuff i had gotten used (mxr delay, dbx compressors). when i got the the studio, it was like routine that something broke, mac towers blowing up, 3 mackie d8b's, the trident, the calrecs, the c-12 psu, amps zapping... i think part of it was because the owner bought alot of it used, and then it saw alot of hours as well at the studio, but part of me thinks that its because so many different people used the stuff. i swear computers, and gear get used to the way a particular operator uses it. i cant prove it, but i dont know many project or home studios that have gear maintenance needs like the commercial places do.

its like when someone uses your car and the clutch or steering wheel feels different for a little bit.

those atomic psu's sure are purty.