Hi Jamie,

I run Pro because I upgraded years ago. There is a comparison table on Steinbergs site. Check that and decide if you need the Pro only features :). I can’t remember the differences off the top of my head sorry.

I will add, that’s a great offer even if you only get 20% more stuff :).

Tony

Makzimia, post: 461765, member: 48344 wrote: Hi Jamie,

I run Pro because I upgraded years ago. There is a comparison table on Steinbergs site. Check that and decide if you need the Pro only features :). I can’t remember the differences off the top of my head sorry.

I will add, that’s a great offer even if you only get 20% more stuff :).

Tony

Tbh I would have preferred a comparison from someone who has done the upgrade from Artist 10 to Pro 10 and what benefits them and see if it benefits me. It's ok for me to look at a table but it's better for someone to say, "Pro uses 'X' and it can do this". Variaudio3, Audio alignment, direct offline processing, group editing. These are features in Pro but someone who uses them would have a better idea of the worth. Some of these features I might not use and some of them and some might have cheaper alternatives ie Variaudio 3, Antares and Melodyne.

jamie Lofts, post: 461778, member: 51509 wrote: Tbh I would have preferred a comparison from someone who has done the upgrade from Artist 10 to Pro 10 and what benefits them and see if it benefits me. It's ok for me to look at a table but it's better for someone to say, "Pro uses 'X' and it can do this". Variaudio3, Audio alignment, direct offline processing, group editing. These are features in Pro but someone who uses them would have a better idea of the worth. Some of these features I might not use and some of them and some might have cheaper alternatives ie Variaudio 3, Antares and Melodyne.

A recent issue of tape op has several reviewers talking about the new cubase if memory serves me correctly. Its worth a google.

kmetal, post: 461784, member: 37533 wrote: A recent issue of tape op has several reviewers talking about the new cubase if memory serves me correctly. Its worth a google.

No idea what tape op is. I thought the whole point of this forum was for musicians to discuss things on here? Tbh the upgrade must not be worth it since nobody seems to want to discuss it directly.

My colleague uses artiste and I use pro - we've collaborated for years on our commercial projects. The common things that pop up, usually when I send him back projects is that it's complexity and workflow advantages that cause him issues on the big ones. simple projects rarely show up any differences.

He records either via MIDI or analogue audio tracks, applies effects and processing and sends them to me. He is running the same expensive Kontakt samples with the same other add ons - we use lots of Spitfire products. Artiste does this as well as my Pro version. the reverbs supplied with his are also on mine and all is well. All the basic editing functions work equally to the ones I use BUT once I have used some things I have as standard on my system, he can't reload them. Cubase is so huge and complex that the type of music you record and what you do with it matters most. I suspect I use less than 10% of Cubase's features. I often click on things when I bored and have no understanding of what they're for. However, some features for me are everyday, and I would not want to go back to working without them.

We often end up with lots of tracks - orchestral stuff supporting piano, bass and vocals, and while groups are useful, I prefer to use VCAs which can be spread across the many sources more effectively than groups, or I may use groups to add reverb and processing to some clusters of instruments, but then still have a 'strings' VCA that works 4 or 5 string groups. Artise can't do this, and of course there is a limit on track quantity. I would be frustrated needing one more track and not being able to have it, but some of our stuff is medleys - Artiste can manage the individual tracks, but I tend to work with each song on say 20 tracks, and the next song on another 20 tracks, one above the other. then the next so the end track count could be 100 for 5 tracks. I know this is perhaps odd, but the idea of being able to keep each song intact and being able to slip all it's tracks in time, and then perform fades between them and still see the relationship, and not have the faff of automating EQ changes between them which I'd have to do if they were on the same track means Pro is a sensible thing for me.

Lately we've been using the new audio track line up feature for double tracking and lining up multiple takes and it's great. The pitch tools are even better - various audio and alignment I would not want to lose. Time warp is a very handy feature for us as we produce backing tracks, following original recordings - so stretching and squashing is essential. I also now use the loudness meters which really help standardise levels in the mastering stages. Pro has tempo detection but I hate it and don't find it useful - we need to do this every project, and my manual version is always better, so that's not for me important.

I can't think of anything else that makes the difference for us? He very happy with artiste, I'm happy with pro.

paulears, post: 461788, member: 47782 wrote: My colleague uses artiste and I use pro - we've collaborated for years on our commercial projects. The common things that pop up, usually when I send him back projects is that it's complexity and workflow advantages that cause him issues on the big ones. simple projects rarely show up any differences.

He records either via MIDI or analogue audio tracks, applies effects and processing and sends them to me. He is running the same expensive Kontakt samples with the same other add ons - we use lots of Spitfire products. Artiste does this as well as my Pro version. the reverbs supplied with his are also on mine and all is well. All the basic editing functions work equally to the ones I use BUT once I have used some things I have as standard on my system, he can't reload them. Cubase is so huge and complex that the type of music you record and what you do with it matters most. I suspect I use less than 10% of Cubase's features. I often click on things when I bored and have no understanding of what they're for. However, some features for me are everyday, and I would not want to go back to working without them.

We often end up with lots of tracks - orchestral stuff supporting piano, bass and vocals, and while groups are useful, I prefer to use VCAs which can be spread across the many sources more effectively than groups, or I may use groups to add reverb and processing to some clusters of instruments, but then still have a 'strings' VCA that works 4 or 5 string groups. Artise can't do this, and of course there is a limit on track quantity. I would be frustrated needing one more track and not being able to have it, but some of our stuff is medleys - Artiste can manage the individual tracks, but I tend to work with each song on say 20 tracks, and the next song on another 20 tracks, one above the other. then the next so the end track count could be 100 for 5 tracks. I know this is perhaps odd, but the idea of being able to keep each song intact and being able to slip all it's tracks in time, and then perform fades between them and still see the relationship, and not have the faff of automating EQ changes between them which I'd have to do if they were on the same track means Pro is a sensible thing for me.

Lately we've been using the new audio track line up feature for double tracking and lining up multiple takes and it's great. The pitch tools are even better - various audio and alignment I would not want to lose. Time warp is a very handy feature for us as we produce backing tracks, following original recordings - so stretching and squashing is essential. I also now use the loudness meters which really help standardise levels in the mastering stages. Pro has tempo detection but I hate it and don't find it useful - we need to do this every project, and my manual version is always better, so that's not for me important.

I can't think of anything else that makes the difference for us? He very happy with artiste, I'm happy with pro.

It's always great to have you reply. This is what I wanted. No bs this is better than this and a straight shooting you can do this but it's not essential, or at least for some people. I don't think anything really warrants the upgrade for me personally although the time warp does sound interesting. After upgrading from 8.5 to 10 it was a sheer new learning curve but an enjoyable one. Looks like I'm happy to just stay where I am. The only thing I don't like with Cubase 10 is that when you edit a clip, the X is in the bottom left rather than the top right. That's such a strange choice and I'm unsure if that can be change?
Thanks for the great information.

jamie Lofts, post: 461787, member: 51509 wrote: No idea what tape op is. I thought the whole point of this forum was for musicians to discuss things on here? Tbh the upgrade must not be worth it since nobody seems to want to discuss it directly.

Hey man, Tape Op is a highly respected free magazine, delivered in physical form and pdf. Its been around for decades, and is one of the more candid and informative music production and technology mags out there.

I suggested it since its such a relaible source of info, and felt reveiws by 3 experienced professionals, who use cubase, and discussed the update. This seems like sage advice to me.

Perhaps you should use this as an opportunity to learn something new about cubase, and discover a great magazine you can learn from over the years. As opposed to being dismissive. I was simply trying to help you gather info since i dont use cubase.

Fwiw i use samplitude Pro x3, and Pro Tools.

I find 'lite' versions of software generally weak, and if im going to bother, want as few limitations as possible. If pro tools was my main daw, id have the ultimate version. Its secondary software for me, and mainly used for its close integration with avid media composer.

Maybe you should download a demo and explore the pro features instead of making up your mind based on someone's opinion or some advertised price point.

Very often in Cubase you only spot the new features when you do an update and something you use everyday vanishes and while you’re looking for it, you find the new features by accident.

kmetal, post: 461794, member: 37533 wrote: Hey man, Tape Op is a highly respected free magazine, delivered in physical form and pdf. Its been around for decades, and is one of the more candid and informative music production and technology mags out there.

I suggested it since its such a relaible source of info, and felt reveiws by 3 experienced professionals, who use cubase, and discussed the update. This seems like sage advice to me.

Perhaps you should use this as an opportunity to learn something new about cubase, and discover a great magazine you can learn from over the years. As opposed to being dismissive. I was simply trying to help you gather info since i dont use cubase.

Fwiw i use samplitude Pro x3, and Pro Tools.

I find 'lite' versions of software generally weak, and if im going to bother, want as few limitations as possible. If pro tools was my main daw, id have the ultimate version. Its secondary software for me, and mainly used for its close integration with avid media composer.

Maybe you should download a demo and explore the pro features instead of making up your mind based on someone's opinion or some advertised price point.

I would just like to point out that it's an American magazine. Since I'm in the UK it would make sense why I have never heard of it before. You are saying I'm being dismissive but I'm sure we have magazines in the UK you have never heard of. It's a little strange to make a comment about making my own mind up without the help of someones opinion but yet you suggested I look at the magazine because several reviewers were talking about it. I'm always happy and grateful for help but I can easily get offended when told I'm being dismissive over a magazine that is American based and I say I have never heard of it.

jamie Lofts, post: 461787, member: 51509 wrote: I thought the whole point of this forum was for musicians to discuss things on here? Tbh the upgrade must not be worth it since nobody seems to want to discuss it directly.

You wanted to discuss it, i mentioned a pro review and you couldnt be bothered to even check it out. Then stated 'nobody wants to discuss it'. Thats why i said you were being dismissive, not because you werent familiar with tape op.

Had you searched the article you would have found good info, and learned what tape op was. Thats being open, not dissmissive.

As far as trying it before you buy, thats more sage advice. opinions are like noses, almost everyone has got one. If i felt they werent important i would not have suggested a reveiw. But at the end of the day the only way to know is to use it.

Im over it bro, but you sound a bit like you are waiting for someone else, to tell you if its right for you. Unless you get the thoughts of someone with your workflow, on every different new pro version feature, you can only truly assess the value of the upgrade by using it.

Fwiw theres a recent thread where i asked about some gear. I got opinions, all of which ended with "but you have to try it yourself". I did not call the people hypocritical just because they suggested i test drive the gear and gather thoughts of others.

Heres a reveiw of cubase 10 pro, written in British. It might point out something you like.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/steinberg-cubase-10

In the UK, we have more confidence in Sound on Sound Magazine. I have to say that I have NEVER heard of the magazine until this topic. I've been reading audio mags since 1974, so I suspect it is a wonderful mag, full of useful information and appreciated by American readers, but just without presence here. I know you read Sound on Sound, just odd we've never heard of your mag?

I guess I don't count as a seasoned professional, sigh. Story of my life. I have however, been using cubase since Atari 520 days, in black and white which would be I guess 1996, and have gone through every single version since then - which I hope, makes my opinion count a little.

Maybe you should download a demo and explore the pro features instead of making up your mind based on someone's opinion

I suspect that as one of us actually uses Cubase, my view is at least, informed. I'd never presume to give an opinion on someone experienced in Samplitude, when I'm not?

I've also written articles for Sound on Sound - so I'd like to think I do know at least a little bit about helping people if I can?

paulears, post: 461800, member: 47782 wrote: In the UK, we have more confidence in Sound on Sound Magazine. I have to say that I have NEVER heard of the magazine until this topic. I've been reading audio mags since 1974, so I suspect it is a wonderful mag, full of useful information and appreciated by American readers, but just without presence here. I know you read Sound on Sound, just odd we've never heard of your mag?

I guess I don't count as a seasoned professional, sigh. Story of my life. I have however, been using cubase since Atari 520 days, in black and white which would be I guess 1996, and have gone through every single version since then - which I hope, makes my opinion count a little.
I suspect that as one of us actually uses Cubase, my view is at least, informed. I'd never presume to give an opinion on someone experienced in Samplitude, when I'm not?

I've also written articles for Sound on Sound - so I'd like to think I do know at least a little bit about helping people if I can?

Sadly this topic has become a bit of a rage for no reason. I have always stated that I appreciate help no matter how little it is. I know Paulears is someone that uses Cubase and I would only assume that if I post up something about Cubase that I would get a reply from someone who uses it. One thing I have found about forums on other sites is that we musician don't talk to each other enough and it's easy to just post a link and push the topic aside. I'm sure many people have used Cubase 10 Artists and upgraded to Cubase 10 Pro and would be able to give an honest opinion on if the upgrade was worth it. I noticed a point that Kmetal mentioned not using lite versions but I don't find Artists to be lite since Cubase LE, Cubase AI and Cubase Elements all fall below Cubase Artist.

"Had you searched the article you would have found good info, and learned what tape op was. Thats being open, not dissmissive".
Since I had never heard of it surely I had to look it up to know it is an American magazine?

That aside, if you don't use Cubase, you don't really understand the question I am asking. I own Artist 10 and the limitations don't bother me. I was asking if it was worth the money to upgrade since you only get a few extras. It's the exact same layout exact same daw just with certain limitations and a few extras missing. That is why I appreciated Paulears comment that was straight to the point and I accept he is a lot more knowledgeable than I could ever be on the subject. Don't forget that this is a forum made for people to discuss things and if someone else is thinking the same thing, they can just read this topic and have a better understanding.

I suspect that artist is pretty useful to everyone, and it's just those tiny differences that make the deal? In all fairness, there are so many features I will never use because I don't do certain styles of music, that it's difficult to assess their worth? However, when you suddenly find a simple feature you didn't know it could do, discover it's been there for a couple of versions, you feel a bit silly.

Not once have I felt the upgrade cost has been not worth it - even without 40% discount.

paulears, post: 461803, member: 47782 wrote: I suspect that artist is pretty useful to everyone, and it's just those tiny differences that make the deal? In all fairness, there are so many features I will never use because I don't do certain styles of music, that it's difficult to assess their worth? However, when you suddenly find a simple feature you didn't know it could do, discover it's been there for a couple of versions, you feel a bit silly.

Not once have I felt the upgrade cost has been not worth it - even without 40% discount.

Tbh I'm pleased with 10 and had fully intentions of staying with it for a long time so I can upgrade other programs. I upgraded from 8.5 Artist to 10 Artist when they had the 50% off deal and that left me with the choice to go Pro if required. With what you said it makes more sense to pay £100+ for massive rather than £100+ to go Pro. Building with what I have is better than building on something I don't really need if that makes sense.

Before you purchase Massive by NI - take a look at Rob Papen Predator 2. I have both, and Predator 2 is more fun to have!!!!! Rob Papen is a (like me LOL) a friendly Dutchman who answers quickly if you have a problem.........

https://www.robpapen.com/Predator2.html

miyaru, post: 461808, member: 49780 wrote: Before you purchase Massive by NI - take a look at Rob Papen Predator 2. I have both, and Predator 2 is more fun to have!!!!! Rob Papen is a (like me LOL) a friendly Dutchman who answers quickly if you have a problem.........

https://www.robpapen.com/Predator2.html

Thanks for the tip. I will certainly try the demo out. I had the demo for Massive a long time ago and I loved the atmospheric sounds it was giving out. I bought the Korg M1 plug-in which for any 80s/90s fan is a must.... Plus Queen used one lol. But that aside, a old band member had a Korg M1 and Korg Trinity so I knew what i wanted. Omnispehere would be perfect but it's well out of my reach.

Yeah, I'm a Korg fan too - have an old N1 (not M but N) and an aging R3........

paulears, post: 461800, member: 47782 wrote: In the UK, we have more confidence in Sound on Sound Magazine. I have to say that I have NEVER heard of the magazine until this topic. I've been reading audio mags since 1974, so I suspect it is a wonderful mag, full of useful information and appreciated by American readers, but just without presence here. I know you read Sound on Sound, just odd we've never heard of your mag?

Tape Op doesnt take the kind of ultra sponsored approach that most mags take. Its free. They will send you a physical copy free. I highly reccomend it. Its not 'exlusive' to american readers, its not some cult mag. The interview with Micheal Brauer was excellent, including a detailed diagram of his bussing system. Tape Op is a great resource for any engineer or artist, regardless of country.

paulears, post: 461800, member: 47782 wrote: I guess I don't count as a seasoned professional, sigh. Story of my life.

Nobody said that Paul. With such a subjective thing as audio and workflow, more reveiws that outline more systematically all the new features in pro 10, could also be helpful. There was no intent to discredit you, by simply suggesting a reveiw written by 3 cubase users.

A good doctor told me once, see ten doctors and you'll leave with eleven opinions... Its good for the decision making process to get as many opinions as practical.

Beyond that i have no idea of your credits, or history, just what i know from talking over the years.

paulears, post: 461800, member: 47782 wrote: I've also written articles for Sound on Sound

Nice man. It would be fun to read them, what issues?

paulears, post: 461800, member: 47782 wrote: I suspect that as one of us actually uses Cubase, my view is at least, informed. I'd never presume to give an opinion on someone experienced in Samplitude, when I'm not?

I used cubase for over a year during my first studio gig. I didnt give my opinions on cubase, rather linked resources as part of discussion points.

Things like track limits of a software edition are a perfect example of something that requires zero cubase exerience to have thoughts on. They do require knowledge of the user workflow, which you outlined, and the OP has not.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: I'm sure many people have used Cubase 10 Artists and upgraded to Cubase 10 Pro and would be able to give an honest opinion on if the upgrade was worth it.

Your sure, yet nobody here has, nor has anyone in any reveiws ive read, tape op, sos, or watched junkie XL. Where are these people?

Since nobody here has faced tge same upgrade question, nobody could give you the validation you seek, just cite references and experiences to help you decide for yourself.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: I know Paulears is someone that uses Cubase and I would only assume that if I post up something about Cubase that I would get a reply from someone who uses it.

We have a tagging system @username.

I have used cubase in the past. This is exactly why i linked not one, but 2 articles, from people who actually use it currently. Tape ops reveiw was written by 3 individuals, to give a broad perspective.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: One thing I have found about forums on other sites is that we musician don't talk to each other enough and it's easy to just post a link and push the topic aside.

How about reading an article someone else read and discussing it?

Many people appreciate links since they save re-typing info, and give a common knowledgebase to talk further on.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: I noticed a point that Kmetal mentioned not using lite versions but I don't find Artists to be lite since Cubase LE, Cubase AI and Cubase Elements all fall below Cubase Artist.

Ok jamie, its not lite. What is it compared to pro.?

And i mentioned i Do Use lite editions, hence me saying i use pro tools as secondary software, otherwise id use the full 'ultimate'. Maybe your unfamiliar with the pro tools nomenclature. I like to keep my eara to the grindstone about all aspecta of software and hardware, for my own knowledge and discussion.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: Since I had never heard of it surely I had to look it up to know it is an American magazine?

Right, did you read the cubase 10 reveiw? Where the focus is new features and are they worth it?

Who cares if its an American magazine or not?

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: That aside, if you don't use Cubase, you don't really understand the question I am asking. I own Artist 10 and the limitations don't bother me. I was asking if it was worth the money to upgrade since you only get a few extras.

I understand your question. Its that nobody can answer it but you.

the simple feature comparason chart on their website is all anyone needs to read. But nobody but you, knows if those features arw useful to you and your individual workflow. Therefore cant asses the value of the upgrade from a cost vs benefit point of veiw, making impossible to say if the sale is "worth it" for You.

If the limitations dont bother you, why consider an upgrade. This sounds like your trying to validate your "abbreviated" version of cubase. Again, the new features are outlined on the cubase site, and the version comparason.

Its not like you saw a new, specific pro feature and specifically asked users experience with it, you asked a very general question and git very general answers.

jamie Lofts, post: 461802, member: 51509 wrote: Don't forget that this is a forum made for people to discuss things and if someone else is thinking the same thing, they can just read this topic and have a better understanding.

Have you seen how many posts i have? I think i might know a thing or two about RO.

miyaru, post: 461810, member: 49780 wrote: Yeah, I'm a Korg fan too - have an old N1 (not M but N) and an aging R3........

I had to look up thr N1. What a strange time to bring that out. I assume they tried to update the success of the M1

kmetal, post: 461813, member: 37533 wrote: Tape Op doesnt take the kind of ultra sponsored approach that most mags take. Its free. They will send you a physical copy free. I highly reccomend it. Its not 'exlusive' to american readers, its not some cult mag. The interview with Micheal Brauer was excellent, including a detailed diagram of his bussing system. Tape Op is a great resource for any engineer or artist, regardless of country.

Nobody said that Paul. With such a subjective thing as audio and workflow, more reveiws that outline more systematically all the new features in pro 10, could also be helpful. There was no intent to discredit you, by simply suggesting a reveiw written by 3 cubase users.

A good doctor told me once, see ten doctors and you'll leave with eleven opinions... Its good for the decision making process to get as many opinions as practical.

Beyond that i have no idea of your credits, or history, just what i know from talking over the years.

Nice man. It would be fun to read them, what issues?

I used cubase for over a year during my first studio gig. I didnt give my opinions on cubase, rather linked resources as part of discussion points.

Things like track limits of a software edition are a perfect example of something that requires zero cubase exerience to have thoughts on. They do require knowledge of the user workflow, which you outlined, and the OP has not.

Your sure, yet nobody here has, nor has anyone in any reveiws ive read, tape op, sos, or watched junkie XL. Where are these people?

Since nobody here has faced tge same upgrade question, nobody could give you the validation you seek, just cite references and experiences to help you decide for yourself.

We have a tagging system @username.

I have used cubase in the past. This is exactly why i linked not one, but 2 articles, from people who actually use it currently. Tape ops reveiw was written by 3 individuals, to give a broad perspective.

How about reading an article someone else read and discussing it?

Many people appreciate links since they save re-typing info, and give a common knowledgebase to talk further on.

Ok jamie, its not lite. What is it compared to pro.?

And i mentioned i Do Use lite editions, hence me saying i use pro tools as secondary software, otherwise id use the full 'ultimate'. Maybe your unfamiliar with the pro tools nomenclature. I like to keep my eara to the grindstone about all aspecta of software and hardware, for my own knowledge and discussion.

Right, did you read the cubase 10 reveiw? Where the focus is new features and are they worth it?

Who cares if its an American magazine or not?

I understand your question. Its that nobody can answer it but you.

the simple feature comparason chart on their website is all anyone needs to read. But nobody but you, knows if those features arw useful to you and your individual workflow. Therefore cant asses the value of the upgrade from a cost vs benefit point of veiw, making impossible to say if the sale is "worth it" for You.

If the limitations dont bother you, why consider an upgrade. This sounds like your trying to validate your "abbreviated" version of cubase. Again, the new features are outlined on the cubase site, and the version comparason.

Its not like you saw a new, specific pro feature and specifically asked users experience with it, you asked a very general question and git very general answers.

Have you seen how many posts i have? I think i might know a thing or two about RO.

For someone is supposed to be, "over it" you seem to be giving a good impression of bitterness towards people. What is your problem? You seem to be really upset over something you don't currently use. You are even having a dig because I didn't take you correctly, that is petty. And it's amazing how you keep telling me to not look at reviews but you told me at the start to look at reviews. Can you please drop the subject if you have nothing to add to the topic. Thank you.

I'm out, sorry. Too strife ridden to get worked up about.

I'm out too. The thread really needs closing before it gets out of hand. It's just better to walk away than to get worked up into a slanging match.