Well if you are a PC Win7 has come out this week, I know that several people here have been using the beta version for quite awhile. I have a dual boot system Vista Home and XP Pro using the latter when I am using the DAW. Just a little sceptical of upgrading the recording OS because everything is working great, not sure if there is really an advantage to changing anything. I am certain that dumping Vista on the other side is probably a good thing but is that going to create any conflicts with the dual boot set up?
Love to hear from some people who have or are making the switch.
Comments
I just got off the phone with Magix ( Samplitude/ Sequoia) tech.
I just got off the phone with Magix ( Samplitude/ Sequoia) tech. In our conversation one of the discussions was about Windows 7 ver Vista and XP.
In a nut shell, from their pro line of studio's using their product, whom have migrated from XP or Vista to Windows 7 say, the CPU meter is much lower and overall performing very very good. They think Windows 7 is going to be the one OS that gets attention from guys like us. I'm on Vista and will be upgrading soon enough. (y)
That's good to know. I've been avoiding Vista like the plague (m
That's good to know. I've been avoiding Vista like the plague (my wife has Vista on her laptop and it has done nothing but get under my skin).
A number of folks in the know that I've talked to have had nothing but good things to say about Win7. Might finally be time to upgrade...
I ran across this today, and posted it elsewhere. If anyone need
I ran across this today, and posted it elsewhere. If anyone needs a trick to do a clean install, here it is:
(I am not advocating piracy. The article, and I, assume you have a legal copy. I am advocating setting up your system the way YOU want it.)
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/howtos/how_use_your_windows_7_upgrade_disk_fresh_pc
saivenkat wrote: love to hear from some people who have or are m
saivenkat wrote: love to hear from some people who have or are making the switch.useful suggestion....
This thread kind of, sort of makes me laugh out loud, and it's not actually funny at all :roll:
I guess it might be the general and overall ignorance that has people going about buying their hardware in the wrong order that leaves me to believe zero amount of research has been conducted to ascertain:
-hardware compatibility
-overall congruency
I fell under the whole "Vista Sucks" campaign myself....UNTIL:
I had a professional and reputable DAW building company build my DAW
using Windows Vista Business 64bit...
Now, I (quite frankly) don't understand, but just in case I'm off my rocker...I have a free W7 64bit upgrade coupon.
I have had the lowest latencies ever recorded by myself going Vista.
No conflicts, no freezes, no crashes, nothing but performance and stability.
W7 isn't yet optimized for audio, and it comes down to what hardware companies have properly written stable and reliable code/drivers...
Most hardware companies (low end) rush their products to market without efficiently testing them.
Personally, I think proper system burn in and testing said system is at the heart of the matter. Acronis makes great software for this purpose. HD failure is also very common and can cause major OS issues if it is corrupted/damaged (more than likely during transit)
bent wrote: That's good to know. I've been avoiding Vista like t
bent wrote: That's good to know. I've been avoiding Vista like the plague (my wife has Vista on her laptop and it has done nothing but get under my skin).
A number of folks in the know that I've talked to have had nothing but good things to say about Win7. Might finally be time to upgrade...
I've gotta know, bent.
What *exactly* gets under your skin?
First off the Savenkat post is total spam, he's just trying to g
First off the Savenkat post is total spam, he's just trying to get his spammish site address up. maybe a mod should take out his site.
I am certainly glad that you used a third party to build you a computer system that works but frankly you should not have to if you don't want to. I'm not sure if when you refer to hardware you are strictly speaking about the computer itself or the total package of recording hardware, computer hardware and software. I know that I bought Presonus hardware just after Vista came out and was endlessly assured by both Presonus and the retailer that it was compatible. Nothing could have been further from the truth, there were a great deal of driver issues for which I blame Presonus software programing. However the Vista OS itself used in my mind huge amount of CPU and RAM without providing much in the way of benefits in a DAW enviroment. I am not saying that it wasn't stable just inefficient and in my mind bloated and cumbersome. I was just last week speaking to someone who works for MS and frankly that was his opinion as well, so there it is from the horse's mouth. Before upgrading to Win 7 I was just looking for some feedback, research as you call it, to see if new users had any caveats or complaints.
Johhny_B "W7 isn't yet optimized for audio,.."
The MS representative that I spoke with totally disagreed with your statement by the way. He felt that the new OS is going to make recording enthusiasts very happy. Do you think that MS is going to be coming out with an optimized version of Win7 soon?
J_B "...and it comes down to what hardware companies have properly written stable and reliable code/drivers... "
On this I do completely agree but some of the driver compatability issue had to do with how difficult the OS was to write drivers for due to the increased security that Vista was trying to provide IMO.
I did not have any issues with Vista either. I had even at vari
I did not have any issues with Vista either. I had even at various points defended it against being vilified since it has improved networking capabilities (with SP1 or SP2) over XP.
The facts are however that Vista-even optimized-exhibited higher latency values (though respectable enough) than it's predecessor Win XP Pro. Win 7 (and various folks have published optimization spreadsheets already) out of the box has much lower CPU usage etc etc etc.
The long and short of it is that if one is happy with their current Vista Bus/Ult DAW pc then there is no need to switch to the new Win7. For those who are dissatisfied with certain other aspects of Vista including CPU loading, a switch may or may not make sense.
If one is still working on XP and wanting to update then skip Vista altogether and move to Win7 Pro or Ultimate. Moving to Home Premium will cause just as many headaches as it did with Vista Home Premium or XP Home Edition.
One that that just baffles me, why does Windows have so many edi
One that that just baffles me, why does Windows have so many editions in one particular release? business, pro ultimate.
Man, IMHO, that is so lame and poor business. Apple makes one version and gets it right ( most of the time). Their one version works on everyones mac that supports it. plain and simple.
I'm switching to PC for various reasons but can't understand this. Can someone explain this to me?
Mac isn't as innocent as you paint there Chris...They just marke
Mac isn't as innocent as you paint there Chris...They just market themselves better.
How many versions of OS X were there? How many products did you see that would say:
MUST USE OS X.yyy
Also, their hardware is less adaptable to significant updates and changes. For example, I have an AMD 350MHz machine from nearly 10 years ago. On that system, I've had the following OS's installed:
Win 98
Win ME (that was a dark day...)
Win XP
Win 2000 Advanced Server (current OS).
Could you imagine doing that with a Mac from the same era...not going to happen.
Oh....and with the exception of the occassional reboot due to software updates and OS changes, that machine has been on and running without 1 hiccup, hangup, or freeze since 1999.
On the other hand, I've used Macs all of my life for various reasons. One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells me that Macs don't crash! The thing is, Macs do crash, often. And when they do, they do it hard!
BTW -
I haven't forgotten your cable Chris. I'm just incredibly back-logged right now. I'll be in touch soon.
Cheers-
J.
Cucco wrote: One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells
Cucco wrote: One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells me that Macs don't crash! The thing is, Macs do crash, often. And when they do, they do it hard!
macs do crash. but not nearly as often as windows pc's. (just my experience, based on 13 years of pc-problems and re-installs from windows 3.1 to xp)
Windows 7 Home Basic
Windows 7 Home Premium
Windows 7 Home Premium N
Windows 7 Professional
Windows 7 Professional N
Windows 7 Ultimate
Windows 7 Ultimate N
that's ridiculous... which one would i need? probably the most expensive one.
though i'm sure it's quite a good os, since they took so many ideas from osx! ;-)
a happy mac-user since 2007.
Cucco wrote: One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells
Cucco wrote: One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells me that Macs don't crash! The thing is, Macs do crash, often. And when they do, they do it hard!
How very true, especially if you use Logic 9 and the latest osx! :lol:
Well, just wanted to say that software/platform is sorta like clothes, they fit differently.
Seems to me the whole industry is in a goofy transition stage right now, which of course makes fertile ground for some issues, kind of like gaining an extra 50 lbs. all the sudden. :?
Got to get into the habit of saving those takes people.
8)
ouzo77 wrote: [quote=Cucco]One thing that makes me laugh is when
ouzo77 wrote: [quote=Cucco]One thing that makes me laugh is when someone tells me that Macs don't crash! The thing is, Macs do crash, often. And when they do, they do it hard!
macs do crash. but not nearly as often as windows pc's. (just my experience, based on 13 years of pc-problems and re-installs from windows 3.1 to xp)
I don't understand this.
I've got the following:
Personal "power laptop" (Win 7 64Bit)
Personal "junk laptop" (Win XP)
Work laptop (Win XP)
recording laptop (Win XP)
recording power workstation (Win XP)
recording workstation (Win XP)
My wife has:
Power photo machine (Win XP)
Old Laptop (Win XP)
New Dell laptop (Win Vista - upgrading to 7 tonight)
Old E-machines desktop
Out of all of these machines that are still currently running and in operation daily, I can count the total number of crashes in the past 5 years on 1 hand. If people's PCs are crashing more often, I'd love to know what the hell they're doing on them!
In fact, I'm harder on my computers than I would assume the average user is since 2 of my machines are essentially hacking (not cracking) machines and many others are "power" machines that are constantly being worked to death!
I think the notion of "crashes" is:
1 - overplayed by media
2 - brought on when someone installs hardware and/or software and has no friggin clue what they're doing. (This is applicable on any platform).
Just some thoughts-
J
Cucco wrote: I think the notion of "crashes" is: 1 - overplayed
Cucco wrote: I think the notion of "crashes" is:
1 - overplayed by media
2 - brought on when someone installs hardware and/or software and has no friggin clue what they're doing. (This is applicable on any platform).Just some thoughts-
J
Yes Jeremy,
Your right on the money. I run mostly Mac but have a PC too. There is nothing wrong with either, its just a question of what you prefer.
ouzo77 wrote: Windows 7 Home Basic Windows 7 Home Premium
ouzo77 wrote:
Windows 7 Home Basic
Windows 7 Home Premium
Windows 7 Home Premium N
Windows 7 Professional
Windows 7 Professional N
Windows 7 Ultimate
Windows 7 Ultimate Nthat's ridiculous... which one would i need? probably the most expensive one.
There originally were six planned editions much like the Vista release. There were numerous techie blogs that berated that idea over the whole Beta period. A quick glance at Best Buy shows only three editions and three additional versions as upgrade only.
in the microsoft shop they have all seven versions. btw, my mai
in the microsoft shop they have all seven versions.
btw, my main issue with windows wasn't crashes, but the slowing down of the machine after a few months (or weeks...).
I use my computer a lot. i do everything on one computer, whether it's internet, graphics, watching movies, listening to music and recording music.
on a windows (xp) machine a all-in-one setup would work for a few weeks, before it slows down or crashes.
on my macbook pro i can do anything without interfering with other programs or tasks.
i was formatting and reinstalling windows at least 3-4 times a year.
with my mac i formatted installed the system twice in the last 2 years - the first time when i upgraded to leopard, the second time when i upgraded to snow leopard.
What amazes me is how people think these things run themselves,
What amazes me is how people think these things run themselves, work perfectly out of the box forever, with no problems ever. Does your $15k-$30K car work that way? Of COURSE not. You have to insure it, put gas in the tank, check the tires, check the oil, and maintain it. No difference with a professional computer. It's not a toaster, folks. If your computer is running slow, it's because YOU LET IT get clogged up and bogged down. Pay attention to what's being added, modified and changed with every piece of software you add.
I won't play the Mac Vs PC game, ever. I have been using a PC since i got into this back in the early 90s, and i made my choice based on more resources being avialable for all the peripherals, etc. (Printers, software, support, such as it was at the time, and so on.) EVen so, I still own an iMAC for the times when I have to have one. (Running Digital performer, etc.) As a long time PC user, I'm far too gone, and simply don't have the time to learn the MAC process, but I don't hate it, or begrudge anyone who uses it and likes it. (For all the bragging from the MAC camp, I find it just as difficult, crash-prone and tricky to work with as any PC ever was.)
I enjoyed WIN XP SP 3 for as long as I could, and still have two machines running just fine on it. (My CD/DVD duplicator system, and my printer PC/FTP server machine are both still WinXP SP3.) I also have two DAWs (one is Vista clean install, one is Windows 7 clean install/upgrade), one office machine (Vista), and two remote recording laptops (Vista).
My wife has Vista on her home office machine, and our daughter has Vista. All except the DAWs came with Vista pre-installed, and work perfectly fine. The brands are: 1 HP, 2 E-Machines, and 6 Sony's.
The networking and security brought about by Vista is superb; my machines can "See" and access any machine's drives (provided they're shared, of course) as smoothly and as quickly as if they were local drives. Ditto for network printing. Of course, one MUST set permissions and other tweaks on each hard drive (internal, external, etc.) or you're in for some serious pain and heartbreak til you do.
Honestly, I have no idea what the big stink was with Vista; as long as one is paying attention, checks the hardware requirements and driver updates, you should be fine. Of course, some hardware just isn't going to work anymore with the newer OS. One of my ATI dual-display cards (in the machine I updated to Windows 7) turned out to be non-compatible with WIndows 7. this was NOT microsoft's fault, btw., ATI simply abandoned it. One call to MS tech support (fast and curteous) solved the problem, (couldn't access the second video screen) and I had to spend a whopping $49 for a new video display card. (Boo hoo, eh? NVIDIA got my money this time, NOT ATI.)
Crashes (like Jeremy, are very rare for me) are learning opportunities, if you work it right. Belive me, I have NO TIME for things that don't work, and I can easily go into a rage or depression when one of my work-machines is messed up. Fortuantely, I've managed to find the answers quickly and efficiently - tech support, users forum, phone calls to geek friends, etc. (God helps those who help themselves, remember that one?)
I spent a total of$119 for Windows 7 family pack (trust me, most of you won't need the two bigger versions), and another $49 for the video card. Add to that the half-day or so I spent under the hood (and learning a few things in the process), I feel it was well worth it. I'm still tweaking a few things here and there, but it's a new lease on life for my older DAW (The one that got the new, clean Windows 7 install/upgrade).
I blame the whole Vista smear campaign on two main things:
1. People are creatures of habit, and having grown into this brave new world of computers-for-business (as we all have in the last 10-15 years now), no one has ANY Tolerance for something that doesn't work perfectly right out of the box, every time. People have forgotten the horrors of Windows 3.11, Win95, Millenium Edition, 2000, etc., and seem to think that all software works perfectly with all products, all the time. This is nonsense to think this way. Everyone wants instant gratification without doing their homework, eps in this "Niche" market of Professional Audio. (We are indeed a minority, folks!)
2. Manufacturers et al simply dropped the ball on getting their act together with solid reliable drivers for Windows Vista. (Cospiracy? Who knows!) Mackie should be noted as one of the worst offenders for waiting till it was almost too late to come out with a reliable solid ONYX driver for Vista. (I think it came out this past summer....in 09....mere months before WIndows 7. Gee, tHANKS, Mackie.) I spent hours setting up my work-arounds and other failsafes to keep the Mackie ONYX WinXP SP3 driver working with Vista. (They laughed, but I got it to work reliably, no matter what they claimed.)
Ditto for M-Audio and quite a few others. It was a complete mess for a long time, but it was NOT Microsoft's fault. (By contrast, RME's Fireface has consistenltly run flawlessly, NEVER crashes, with WinXP, Vista, and Windows 7 for me.)
Of course, all the MAC OS permutations didn't help either, I can just imagine all the cross-platform companies going NUTS over all the driver updates needed, and IMHO, they simply didn't care about VISTA, only too happy to watch it take the lumps for a problem THEY exacerbated.
Windows 7 for me is a wonderful upgrade (so far) and I welcome and recommend it. My DAW running Windows 7 feels brand new again. i'll probably buy a second Family pack and upgrade the rest in due time.
jg49 wrote: I am certainly glad that you used a third party to b
jg49 wrote: I am certainly glad that you used a third party to build you a computer system that works but frankly you should not have to if you don't want to. I'm not sure if when you refer to hardware you are strictly speaking about the computer itself or the total package of recording hardware, computer hardware and software.
You must try to understand something:
A DAW building professional does not simply build around your hardware.
Basically they build a system and will recommend a hardware solution that is PROVEN to work. It is in this area where a person's (or a company's) word can make or break them....The people who built my system know exactly what works, and what doesn't.
Which brings me to my next point: Presonus.
I have nothing but great things to say.
I also cannot know exactly what your system configuration was/is, but
it is widely known that without using a Texas Instrument based chipset...ANY FW device may not work properly. -Not Presonus' fault.
jg49 wrote: However the Vista OS itself used in my mind huge amount of CPU and RAM without providing much in the way of benefits in a DAW enviroment. I am not saying that it wasn't stable just inefficient and in my mind bloated and cumbersome.
I have 12GB of RAM running in a 64 bit environment not because it's cool to have 12GB, but because I *need* it. A Mac OS wasn't the best choice for me and my needs. It is widely known XP Pro has the best/lowest recorded latency, however I would almost beg to differ considering this little beast can run at 2ms latency all day long without a pop nor click.
jg49 wrote: I was just last week speaking to someone who works for MS and frankly that was his opinion as well, so there it is from the horse's mouth. Before upgrading to Win 7 I was just looking for some feedback, research as you call it, to see if new users had any caveats or complaints.
Johhny_B "W7 isn't yet optimized for audio,.."
The MS representative that I spoke with totally disagreed with your statement by the way. He felt that the new OS is going to make recording enthusiasts very happy. Do you think that MS is going to be coming out with an optimized version of Win7 soon?
I truly hope you know W7=Vista 2.0 essentially.
Direct X issues are a thing of the past...and might I add W7 (in time) will be THE choice for audio rendering/recording once properly written drivers are made (not patches or workarounds) Vista STILL records lower latency than W7) despite what any MS rep will tell you...of course, YMMV
which, solely sits on the laps of the hardware manufacturers, not MS.
jg49 wrote: J_B "...and it comes down to what hardware companies have properly written stable and reliable code/drivers... "
On this I do completely agree but some of the driver compatability issue had to do with how difficult the OS was to write drivers for due to the increased security that Vista was trying to provide IMO.
Sure, bud, I agree as well....
However look at companies like:
RME for example.
They know what they are doing.
Any issues are due to FW limitations/inherent issues from the technologies they have to base their code around...
Case in point:
Multiface....
Uses USB 2.0 and can match and even exceed a FF's performance!
It's about the developers, not MS....
Mac's Snow Leopard is having a multitude of issues right now, namely with Cubase...
As it sits?
The BEST PC for Cubase 5?
A Windows PC, not a Mac.
JoeH wrote: What amazes me is how people think these things run
JoeH wrote: What amazes me is how people think these things run themselves, work perfectly out of the box forever, with no problems ever. Does your $15k-$30K car work that way? Of COURSE not. You have to insure it, put gas in the tank, check the tires, check the oil, and maintain it. No difference with a professional computer. It's not a toaster, folks. If your computer is running slow, it's because YOU LET IT get clogged up and bogged down. Pay attention to what's being added, modified and changed with every piece of software you add.
that's my point! i don't have to put much work into my mac just to keep it functional. that leaves me with more time for the fun part. making music.
and about that mac vs. pc thing – i don't say you can't have a pc running perfect. i've worked with windows for over 13 years and there were times when i had little or no trouble with my machine (that's because i've learned the hard way how to maintain it). but you have to be very careful with what you do and what you install.
given my experience with both platforms, i can say that for me a mac works better and more stable (well most of the time, anyway)
so enough from me about macs and pc's.
Moving to Home Premium will cause just as many headaches as it d
Moving to Home Premium will cause just as many headaches as it did with Vista Home Premium or XP Home Edition.
Hey, JackAttack, why do you say this?
I had recently purchased a 2.66ghz Core I7 Dell Studio XPSt, with Vista Home Premium installed, separate HD's for recording to, samples, and OS/Programs, and 6 gigs O'RAM, and I have been using it for multichannel recording (Lynx Aurora 8 with PCIe) for about 4 months. It has worked pretty good so far. I got most of the unnecessary services and programs disabled or uninstalled, and only use it for recording. I use Reaper.
It is however, connected to my network.
I have had a few minor glitches (pops and crackles), but they are pretty rare, and only seem to happen when the system sits idle for a while, say when setting up mics or what have you. I'm talking an hour or two here. They haven't really been a problem, and a restart of the Aurora and PC completely solves it until I leave it idle again.
But, it came with a free upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium. I'm wondering if I should skip the upgrade, and just purchase a full copy of Windows 7 Business or Ultimate. Or, would the Home Premium be fine?
Has anyone made the switch to W7 Home Premium using the free upgrade, with a system using an Aurora 8 with PCIe?
I'm pretty new to the whole recording thing, but have done a good amount of "homework". I just don't have the experience that some of the others here have. So, I'm asking the experts!
Sorry for hijacking the thread. :?
Home, Home Premium, Home Basic=partially crippled. These versio
Home, Home Premium, Home Basic=partially crippled. These versions can be made to work in some instances but not all do to less administrative control over the OS. Audio manufacturers do not support these versions either which is also an issue.
If you are currently successful that's great but as a matter of course I can never recommend Home Premium/Basic anything for audio use pro or otherwise. It's just too much of a crap shoot.
Incidentally, when you are recording you need to disable all wlan and lan adapters for best results. This might be the source of your crackles. Also, on a recording machine one should disable any screensavers and if possible power management schemes. These are just general recommendations and not specific as without knowing a unique machine and it's setup it is fairly impossible to be definitive or certain.
Windows 7 and Soundblaster Card Problems I am currently using a
Windows 7 and Soundblaster Card Problems
I am currently using a Creative Soudblaster Fatality1 Professional soundcard and when I upgraded to Windows7 from Vista my Creative ASIO driver is having alot of problems now. I downloaded the "Windows7" driver from Creative but it is still messing up.
dragonslayer - i have the same soundcard, and had problems as we
dragonslayer - i have the same soundcard, and had problems as well. i went back to XP.
I tried out windows 7 and I found when recording with my firepod that i would get static clicks, like the process was jumping and causing artifacts. what was strange is it happened at random times during playback, but you could not see it in the waveform. then i mix down and lo and behold there were artifacts. i formatted back to win xp and havent had a problem since. (that was doing a full windows7 install, not an upgrade) windows 7 is a great OS i liked it a lot from what i saw but did not work with my stuff.
What this really is indicting is Creative's driver writing proce
What this really is indicting is Creative's driver writing process. XP Mode is useful for those devices/programs that refuse to update their drivers or have poor quality control of same. As an aside, I would not call any sound card Creative manufactured as professional quality.
If it were me, I would dump Vista and do one of two things: 1) D
If it were me, I would dump Vista and do one of two things:
1) Dual boot Win7/Win7 (for DAW)
2) Dual boot Win7/XP Pro (for DAW)
I have chosen so far on three machines to use option 1 with the RC even though I will ultimately have to purchase an RTM version and reinstall. I have had no problems at all with compatibility with a minor tweak to accommodate the FF800 (new driver released last week).